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Mining barge changes [now with feedback]
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Dave stark
#481 - 2012-07-28 21:49:35 UTC
Inspiration wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Inspiration wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
it was past tense; reading is as good as your maths i see.
when your argument was based around % values that you didn't back up; and still haven't backed up. then yes, it is about maths. you made it that way.

oh please, i do consider the practical applications. however going "i will dock up less in a mackinaw" means nothing unless you know how many times you dock up, how long that will take, etc so you can calculate [woops, more maths again] which ship is truly more viable. for example for short sessions the mackinaw is superior to the hulk, however if you've got an orca that you can use to haul and you're able to stay out in the belt for a couple of hours the hulk becomes the highest yield ship even when solo mining regardless of the mackinaw's logistical bonus.

we're not talking about fights that have random variables such as human responses; it's mining where a rock has x ore and my ship mines y yield. there's no variables to consider that don't have a quantity. some are harder to measure than others; but they are measurable.

anyway; care to contribute to the thread rather than making a fool of yourself?


No, there is nothing we can measure about real rock status on the live server. It changes every day and hence the importance to reason in concepts as well as numbers. Most reasoning can be perfectly done without numbers, in fact nearly all reasoning is done without any numbers as all in our life.

In the meantime I posted the details where that 15.5% came from, and if you had the will to be constructive, you would have immediately understood where i was coming from. Just like another did when I explained in excruciating detail why the Mackinaw is so much better and the Hulk not really a fleet ship like they intended it to be.

You pretty much ignored me at every step of the way, just acting more ignorant after every post. If you trying to make up for that now, fine, but realize you never even tried to understand anything i wrote. This makes you look like you have no idea what you are talking about, and i stand by that.

If you cannot take the heat, don't ignite the fire!


yes, there is. magical module called a survey scanner. you know exactly how much has respawned. you can measure it.
reasoning is not proving.
actually, it's not. there's a whole branch of mathematics dedicated to it, it's called statistics. just because you can't use maths to back up your arguments doesn't mean it holds true for intelligent people.

no, you didn't post where the 15% came from. as i pointed out.
i would have understood where you were coming from if your posts weren't as coherent as a woman in a shoe sale.
you haven't put any detail in a single post yet.

i haven't ignored anything; most of it simply doesn't make sense so there's no way to respond to it.
i tried very hard, but it was full of unsupported claims that came from nowhere and things that were just plain incorrect.

if this is an ignited fire, i want a refund on the firewood. it's not even warm in here.
anyway, stop posting. this is about new mining barges not your short comings.


You are just insulting here, not the real intelligent person you claim to be in this post. Again you write a lot of nonsense statements and even more blames. Fact is, that you simply did not have any intuition with the numbers, if you understood the concept, the 3*5 would have directly hit you in the context it was provided.

Now you are attempting to shift your own failure at meaningful reading on me being not clear enough for you. Bringing in statistics and survey scanner on top of it is just a distraction to have something of an argument for arguments sake. Point is, you cannot scan every rock out here and build up some reliable statistics, nor can i. There are too many variables involved and time is one of them. All we know for sure from experience is that rocks come not in perfect bites!!! So just keep it out of the discussion, let alone use it to elevate yourself to intelligence godhood or something special and better then me.

Wake up...stop being ignorant, stop pretending your the epic part of humanity in this discussion...you made an error, so pardon me if I take insult to you pinning it on me!


you really do have issues reading? you've taken 2 unrelated statements and think i want to do some statistical survey? i give up with you. it's impossible to have a conversation with you when your grasp on the english language is so bad. i tried, honestly.
Noslen Nosilla
Federal Logistics Initiative Conglomerate
United Interests
#482 - 2012-07-28 21:58:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Noslen Nosilla
Girls, Girls, Girls...you're all pretty.Big smile

Can we stop the name calling and flaming and disuss this like civilized pilots? Bear

In a typical Hisec mining op with an Orca (with max bonus), 1-2 Itty V haulers, and 4-8 hulks, my corp can pretty much empty a belt in well under an hour, we do assign pilots to specific ore types but each pilot needs a selection of crystals to assist other miners once their assigned ores are harvested.

On an average night I will break 3-6 crystals. My current crystal loadout is 5 Plag, 5 Scord, 6, Veld, 4 Omber (all T2). Having a hauler run over to me to deliver cystals is an issue as it breaks the rhythm of the haulers moving ore from the orca. If we need special crystals (for hisec) like Jaspet, Hemorphite, Kernite (not normally where we mine) they are in the orca.

We don't have a hauler running around the belt gathering from jet cans....thats why the orca has a 74k range tractor (it's actually 84k but the orca only locks out to 74k).

If the hulk has a cargohold of 500k (and the crystals remain the same size 25m3) this makes life simple and mining fun...for some reason we seem to forget that the reason for playing this game is to have fun. Lol

Sure I'd like my hulk to hold 2.5 cycles of ore but it lost that when I re-tanked for permageddon so I'm used to the smaller hold.

For those of you that are saying just use T1 strip miners and you don't need crystals...really? I don't know one person in this game that doesn't want the best modules that he or she can make or buy whether it's prop mods, survey equipment, guns or yes strip miners.

Bear

Be polite.

Be professional.

But have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
Inspiration
#483 - 2012-07-28 22:08:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Inspiration
Dave stark wrote:
all you do by reducing cycle time is increase crystal consumption, though.
it's easier to avoid potential loss with longer cycles as you're more likely to cancel the cycle closer to when you need to cancel it if you're not doing a full cycle. at least, i find it easier to judge when to stop a strip miner than a miner I.
faster cycles are only more efficient if you are afk and aren't bothering to manually cancel cycles if a roid is about to pop.

for example, if there was 1 unit of veld left and i had a 3 min cycle and a 1min cycle, the 1 min cycle would finish sooner so i'd have my laser shooting a full asteroid sooner. this change simply benefits afk people and burns through crystals which is already a problem. there's no reason to go against how the entire system is currently built for a needless and almost non existent "bonus" for afkers.


Shorter cycles means you take less loss if you have many things to keep track off. In the extreme example of 64m3 chunks it is clear to see it would be much easier manageable to get near perfection then with a larger cycle. The difference with 15% smaller chunks is less pronounced, but the effect essentially the same.

On the Mackinaw, and certainly the Skiff, monitoring ore left is going to be important to keep good yields. On the current hulk, i sometimes stop a module too early and have to re-scan and re-estimate how long I have to wait to try again. If this happens a few times in a row, yes it does happen, then the capacitor is too low and i cannot activate the miner straight away.

Mostly I try to stay on the side of caution, but it is worth doing, just as it is worth using drones in relax mode. Always give the strip miners priority, they are by far the biggest chunk of the yield.

It is true that it feels easier to control stop-timing a strip miner compared to a miner i, but this is partly an illusion i think. What is fact is that timing the miner I right which has a cycle time a whopping 3 times as short, just means you got to scan 3 times as frequent and make decisions 3 times as frequent. Another fact is that if you do not time at all, the maximum loss you can take is also 3 times as small. I say illusion because, you never know for sure how much you wasted by stopping the strip miner too late. If you do it too late on a miner I, odds are it is less damaging.

Back to barges, and comparing apples to apples.

Yes the crystals will get damaged 15% faster too, hence i posted the plea to increase the hulks cargo hold to 600m3 at the same time. This not only means we are neutral, it also means we can divide more and thus be more versatile in the crystals we bring with us. Even at 15% more damage, T2 crystals will be so worth it most of the time. I am not sure if it still is the case, i stopped bothering, but if a crystal was like 90% damaged you used to be able to refine it for bull and make a fresh one...making crystal costs a mood point (at least for T1 versions).

I am serious!

Sigras
Conglomo
#484 - 2012-07-28 22:28:48 UTC
Jake Rivers wrote:
Sigras wrote:
Jake Rivers wrote:
Round and round we go!

We should only have 14 crystals, thats perfect for me, everyone else should be happy with that!

Thanks for the input!

yet it is you who is touting a "we should be able to do whatever we want" policy.

Try suggesting that in a PvP forum some time and see how well that goes over Roll

Its called game balance, the hulk is now no longer the max yield miner AND the easy mode miner, you have to pick, so as i said before CCP added another interesting choice . . . choose


I know, you can never win the argument on the internet with a kid.

Try some mining some time and once you figure out how it works, get back to me.

As I said to Dave Stark earlier, Ive found that the person who is right usually argues about the topic and the person who is wrong usually attacks the other person's character.

I have Exhumers 5, Capital Industrial Ships 5, Mining Director 5 and hundreds of hours both mining and organizing mining ops.

Im sorry that youre too stupid, too lazy or a combination of both to make the hulk work effectivly as is, but that really isnt my problem, if you want to be lazy do it in a mackinaw.
Sigras
Conglomo
#485 - 2012-07-28 22:41:26 UTC
For everyone who wants more crystals in the hulk, I have to ask. What are you doing with all the ore that youre mining?

Clearly you're not in high sec because you will never have to use more than 4 types of crystals there.

So youre presumably in 0.0 and most likely mining in a grav belt.

What I cant understand is that in a grav belt you can warp in with only one type of crystal and mine WAY more than a hauler's worth of ore, so what are you doing with it? are you leaving it in a series of jetcans by your hulk to come back and pick up later?

What is your method of mining that it would be SUCH a big deal for a hauler to come out and bring you more crystals? how is all that ore getting back to the station in one trip?
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#486 - 2012-07-29 00:26:21 UTC
Sigras wrote:
For everyone who wants more crystals in the hulk, I have to ask. What are you doing with all the ore that youre mining?

Clearly you're not in high sec because you will never have to use more than 4 types of crystals there.

So youre presumably in 0.0 and most likely mining in a grav belt.

What I cant understand is that in a grav belt you can warp in with only one type of crystal and mine WAY more than a hauler's worth of ore, so what are you doing with it? are you leaving it in a series of jetcans by your hulk to come back and pick up later?

What is your method of mining that it would be SUCH a big deal for a hauler to come out and bring you more crystals? how is all that ore getting back to the station in one trip?


I would like 375m3 for 15 ammo in the cargo (would be 5x3sets) and that is all I can think of for the worst situation of rocks in a belt one might want to mine...Veld, Scor, Pyro, Kern, etc.... or missions - which is where this is going to reall come into play...

And as far as ore... throw it overboard in a can as the hulks ore bay is well ... worthless and a can is much bigger... cans until we get something else are just going to be a miners best and worst friend.
Jake Rivers
New Planetary Order
#487 - 2012-07-29 00:52:58 UTC
Sigras wrote:
For everyone who wants more crystals in the hulk, I have to ask. What are you doing with all the ore that youre mining?

Clearly you're not in high sec because you will never have to use more than 4 types of crystals there.

So youre presumably in 0.0 and most likely mining in a grav belt.

What I cant understand is that in a grav belt you can warp in with only one type of crystal and mine WAY more than a hauler's worth of ore, so what are you doing with it? are you leaving it in a series of jetcans by your hulk to come back and pick up later?

What is your method of mining that it would be SUCH a big deal for a hauler to come out and bring you more crystals? how is all that ore getting back to the station in one trip?



It is really none of your business how someone mines. You have your method, others will have theirs.

Why should your method be the one we have to use.

Senex Legio
Unit757
North Point
#488 - 2012-07-29 01:28:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Unit757
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
Sigras wrote:
For everyone who wants more crystals in the hulk, I have to ask. What are you doing with all the ore that youre mining?

Clearly you're not in high sec because you will never have to use more than 4 types of crystals there.

So youre presumably in 0.0 and most likely mining in a grav belt.

What I cant understand is that in a grav belt you can warp in with only one type of crystal and mine WAY more than a hauler's worth of ore, so what are you doing with it? are you leaving it in a series of jetcans by your hulk to come back and pick up later?

What is your method of mining that it would be SUCH a big deal for a hauler to come out and bring you more crystals? how is all that ore getting back to the station in one trip?


I would like 375m3 for 15 ammo in the cargo (would be 5x3sets) and that is all I can think of for the worst situation of rocks in a belt one might want to mine...Veld, Scor, Pyro, Kern, etc.... or missions - which is where this is going to reall come into play...

And as far as ore... throw it overboard in a can as the hulks ore bay is well ... worthless and a can is much bigger... cans until we get something else are just going to be a miners best and worst friend.


That's why you use a Mackinaw? You know, the ship designed for what you obviously want to do? (Solo mine)
Quote:

It is really none of your business how someone mines. You have your method, others will have theirs.

Why should your method be the one we have to use.


Because his method works? You can mine whatever way you want, but that doesn't mean its the right way. I could go put blasters on an Armageddon, it could be my method, sure. But it doesn't work.

If you want something changed to a certain way, you need to provide a valid reason why it should be. Responding with "It's none of your business" will not get you anywhere.

Either way, I will wait to see what becomes of the hulks cargo bay, based on the covetors current bay. I will personally not be flying either, but it shall be interesting to see the end result.
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#489 - 2012-07-29 01:39:40 UTC
Unit757 wrote:
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
Sigras wrote:
For everyone who wants more crystals in the hulk, I have to ask. What are you doing with all the ore that youre mining?

Clearly you're not in high sec because you will never have to use more than 4 types of crystals there.

So youre presumably in 0.0 and most likely mining in a grav belt.

What I cant understand is that in a grav belt you can warp in with only one type of crystal and mine WAY more than a hauler's worth of ore, so what are you doing with it? are you leaving it in a series of jetcans by your hulk to come back and pick up later?

What is your method of mining that it would be SUCH a big deal for a hauler to come out and bring you more crystals? how is all that ore getting back to the station in one trip?


I would like 375m3 for 15 ammo in the cargo (would be 5x3sets) and that is all I can think of for the worst situation of rocks in a belt one might want to mine...Veld, Scor, Pyro, Kern, etc.... or missions - which is where this is going to reall come into play...

And as far as ore... throw it overboard in a can as the hulks ore bay is well ... worthless and a can is much bigger... cans until we get something else are just going to be a miners best and worst friend.


That's why you use a Mackinaw? You know, the ship designed for what you obviously want to do? (Solo mine)
Quote:

It is really none of your business how someone mines. You have your method, others will have theirs.

Why should your method be the one we have to use.


Because his method works? You can mine whatever way you want, but that doesn't mean its the right way. I could go put blasters on an Armageddon, it could be my method, sure. But it doesn't work.

If you want something changed to a certain way, you need to provide a valid reason why it should be. Responding with "It's none of your business" will not get you anywhere.

Either way, I will wait to see what becomes of the hulks cargo bay, based on the covetors current bay. I will personally not be flying either, but it shall be interesting to see the end result.


I understand that...what I am saying IS: Make it EITHER 12x or 15x capacity... FINE you do not like the current 14 cap... nerf it down to 12...but it's stupid to carrry... 3x and 3x and 3x and 3x and then 2x... because that is ONE SHORT... get it...stop being dense veld...
Unit757
North Point
#490 - 2012-07-29 01:44:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Unit757
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
Unit757 wrote:
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
Sigras wrote:
For everyone who wants more crystals in the hulk, I have to ask. What are you doing with all the ore that youre mining?

Clearly you're not in high sec because you will never have to use more than 4 types of crystals there.

So youre presumably in 0.0 and most likely mining in a grav belt.

What I cant understand is that in a grav belt you can warp in with only one type of crystal and mine WAY more than a hauler's worth of ore, so what are you doing with it? are you leaving it in a series of jetcans by your hulk to come back and pick up later?

What is your method of mining that it would be SUCH a big deal for a hauler to come out and bring you more crystals? how is all that ore getting back to the station in one trip?


I would like 375m3 for 15 ammo in the cargo (would be 5x3sets) and that is all I can think of for the worst situation of rocks in a belt one might want to mine...Veld, Scor, Pyro, Kern, etc.... or missions - which is where this is going to reall come into play...

And as far as ore... throw it overboard in a can as the hulks ore bay is well ... worthless and a can is much bigger... cans until we get something else are just going to be a miners best and worst friend.


That's why you use a Mackinaw? You know, the ship designed for what you obviously want to do? (Solo mine)
Quote:

It is really none of your business how someone mines. You have your method, others will have theirs.

Why should your method be the one we have to use.


Because his method works? You can mine whatever way you want, but that doesn't mean its the right way. I could go put blasters on an Armageddon, it could be my method, sure. But it doesn't work.

If you want something changed to a certain way, you need to provide a valid reason why it should be. Responding with "It's none of your business" will not get you anywhere.

Either way, I will wait to see what becomes of the hulks cargo bay, based on the covetors current bay. I will personally not be flying either, but it shall be interesting to see the end result.


I understand that...what I am saying IS: Make it EITHER 12x or 15x capacity... FINE you do not like the current 14 cap... nerf it down to 12...but it's stupid to carrry... 3x and 3x and 3x and 3x and then 2x... because that is ONE SHORT... get it...stop being dense veld...


If you had read one of my previous comments, I have already said im not going on about the hulks hold, because the covetor is still 500, so the hulk might go up again, so you stop with your sad attempt at an insult.

Again, I will repeat myself. You obviously want to mine solo, based on what you've said. You should be in the Mackinaw, which can actually hold 7 sets of crystals, and has a cargo hold bigger then a jet can, so you shouldn't have a problem, right?

Edit - the bottom half of that reply you quoted wasn't directed at you, if that was what your replying to. The Mackinaw part was.
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#491 - 2012-07-29 04:40:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Spc One
Mackinaw has super small capacitor.
Only 500 units, really ?

I suggest you increase it to 1000.
It is a cruiser sized vessel anyway so it should have more than 500.
Either increase capacitor or decrease capacitor use for miners even more.


What?
Stefan1978
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#492 - 2012-07-29 06:30:29 UTC
New´s from Sisi: Crystals now 25 m³ instead of 50m³

Sounds Ok? Better than nothing.
Dave stark
#493 - 2012-07-29 07:09:49 UTC
Stefan1978 wrote:
New´s from Sisi: Crystals now 25 m³ instead of 50m³

Sounds Ok? Better than nothing.


old news and doesn't solve the issue since the cargo has been reduced on the hulk.
at least read the thread before posting?
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#494 - 2012-07-29 07:15:06 UTC
Look moron, I don't want to mine solo. unplug the shyt from your ears re-read what I said...

quit being a dumbass and trolling, do you understand math or are you a US failure with number theory?

What is 3 x 5 = 15.. not 17, not 3, not head-up-the-backside...it's 15... how many sets is 5 sets of crystals for a hulk or cov armed with 3x strip miners? is it 14? ...no it's ******* 15... what is three less than that? 12? would it be 3x4 or 4 sets of crystals = 12 total? and how much is that if they are 25m3 each?

I do not want to solo mine, I am not saying gimmie 1000 rounds of crystals... I am talking simply changes of sets -COMPLETE sets of 3...god ******* idiots around here.
Aetatis
TriTech Technology
#495 - 2012-07-29 09:52:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Aetatis
and after that change many of you will cry because there is no place left do carry a simple bookmark with you for maintaining a can or whatever (or a script or think of something else) - even no place to change the crystals, to change one u will need at least enough cargo for ONE, better more to carry somethin else with u (if i remember correctly)
now tell me whats your problem with "14" or 350m³?

edit2: tested and proofed, you cannot switch crystals if your cargo is full, it would take at least 25m³ - so ccp did fine ( i still deny the change from "every crystal" to "12" - to keep that one clear :P )


edit1: i dont like the changes either - i'd be glad if ccp redesigns the current size of the crystals or gimme a special crystal-bay. but if i have to adapt, there will be ways to do that.
t1 lazors - checking out the belts before mining - getting mates with you and coordinate more effectively - dock - pos - let your hauler bring some crystals if he/she is coming next to haul your stuff...
Jake Rivers
New Planetary Order
#496 - 2012-07-29 14:35:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jake Rivers
My mining method is for max output, and I am not going to fit T1 strip miners, or use an inferior vessel just because the crystal size is silly and you think that is a great solution.

The hulks roll is for a support fleet I am fine with that, my fleets support the hulk role just fine.

I do not believe someone in that support fleet should be required to be crystal gopher, that really would be a waste of ones time.

If there is a large group of people out mining, crystal selection is even more important, as target rock choices will keep changing as people mine away. The world is not perfect, so assigning particular rocks to everyone is not a solution to poor crystal selection.

So when I am mining I should not have to worry about the pitiful selection of crystals in my cargohold. I want to bust rocks, and do so at the current levels I enjoy without going insane every time a crystal breaks and there are no spares on hand.

Resources are limited in null sec and most will burn the crystals to the end, so using new crystals every op is not an option. In any case, having to load a crystal up and check show info just to see what condition it is in is also not practical.

What did you mine in the last 4 nights? I actually have an opinion as I do mine on occasion, I cleaned out a large grav and other assorted sites. I am sure all you '3 sets of crystal people is just fine' have not even undocked in a mining vessel, or if you actually do mine either your output is horrible or you are just a cherry picker miner.

Senex Legio
Sigras
Conglomo
#497 - 2012-07-29 15:11:52 UTC
Jake Rivers wrote:
My mining method is for max output, and I am not going to fit T1 strip miners, or use an inferior vessel just because the crystal size is silly and you think that is a great solution.

The hulks roll is for a support fleet I am fine with that, my fleets support the hulk role just fine.

I do not believe someone in that support fleet should be required to be crystal gopher, that really would be a waste of ones time.

If there is a large group of people out mining, crystal selection is even more important, as target rock choices will keep changing as people mine away. The world is not perfect, so assigning particular rocks to everyone is not a solution to poor crystal selection.

So when I am mining I should not have to worry about the pitiful selection of crystals in my cargohold. I want to bust rocks, and do so at the current levels I enjoy without going insane every time a crystal breaks and there are no spares on hand.

Resources are limited in null sec and most will burn the crystals to the end, so using new crystals every op is not an option. In any case, having to load a crystal up and check show info just to see what condition it is in is also not practical.

What did you mine in the last 4 nights? I actually have an opinion as I do mine on occasion, I cleaned out a large grav and other assorted sites. I am sure all you '3 sets of crystal people is just fine' have not even undocked in a mining vessel, or if you actually do mine either your output is horrible or you are just a cherry picker miner.

no, we're just smart enough to use logistics to BRING US THE RIGHT CRYSTALS WHEN WE NEED THEM.

You realize that the crystals last for 6 hours right?

Therefore the only limiting factor is the amount of asteroids with the 5 different types of ore as you have crystals.

This means that you either:
1. Mine a whole ton then do multiple hauler runs (you can still do this, just mine out 5 types, do some hauling, then mine out 5 more types)
2. Mine a whole ton and have someone else haul it for you (just have them bring you more crystals)
3. Mine in an actual belt where there is less than a full hauler runs worth of minerals in 5 ores (this is fail because nobody mines in actual belts in 0.0 any more)
4. Mine and haul it in your hulk (youre making way more trips than you need to anyway, just get more crystals when you need them)
5. Mine and dont haul it (youre not making any isk anyway)

Im sorry that fleet mining is now going to take come thought and organization, but its a change thats long overdue.

Remember this game rewards you for thinking about what you do before you do it, and thats the way uh huh uh huh I like it.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#498 - 2012-07-29 15:18:35 UTC
Unit757 wrote:
ITT - lazy miners want max yield/easy mode hulk.

I will repeat myself again, the vast majority of PVP ships CANNOT carry every single type of ammo they have avalible to them, with the exception of amarr ships.


The vast majority of PvP ships can shoot back, perform their job at higher transversal, don't need to perma-sit at a globally visible location AND they can fine tune their offense vs defense.

Once your PvP ship is reduced to two low slots and inane CPU for you to "choose" what fitting to use and you are forced to sit in a globally warpable location for hours, then you can draw comparisons.

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#499 - 2012-07-29 15:22:57 UTC
Dave stark wrote:


what do you mean made worse, you just hit f1 and wait for the asteroid to pop. there's really nothing to micromanage.



Have you EVER used a mining ship in your life?

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#500 - 2012-07-29 15:27:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Dave stark wrote:
considering i'm one of the 3 people who in this thread worked out the new ice mining yields... try again

my point; if you missed it, which i'm sure you did... is that when i present a number i back it up with calculations rather than just making it appear out of thin air.


Theorycrafters are worse than practitioneers. The latter live day by day the horrible garbage the former "calculated" without knowing the practical consequences.

Just the fact you say that you wait for a roid to pop completely disqualifies you from being anything from a totally unshaved miner.

Edit:

My credentials:

- Former Logistics Officer in Dark Rising.
- Low sec corp Mining Ops in Taff and Gukarla with them.

- Hi sec (some months) corp mining ops in various Minmatar space in Minerva Corporation (my industry alts) including Orca.
- 0.0 sec (some months) corp mining ops in Minerva Corporation in Initiative Alliance space (my industry alts and me but out of the corp), including Rorqual.

- Hi sec ice mining for other months expecially during Hulkageddon, both as max yeld + Orca setup, and solo tanked setups.

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