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Homeowners: One - Power Company: Zero

Author
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#1 - 2012-07-28 16:11:11 UTC
Leave my meter alone... buahaha

"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"

leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-07-28 20:14:30 UTC
the signal will make them sick? the signal is essentially the equivalent of a text every 30 minutes to an hour.
if you have the meter, then they can what times of day you're using the most power and charge you accordingly. the way it will work is that power usage at peak times like 7-9 in the morning and in the evening at about 5-8 would be more expensive than the going rate. non peak times from 6am-11pm would run the standard rate and anything from 11pm-6am would run at a lower rate. with the dumb meters (actual term) it will average it across all times but you get a reading fee of 10-15% added for having to send someone to read the meter.
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#3 - 2012-07-28 22:41:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
You mean
"Pigheaded redneck homeowners : 1, Logic and reason : 0"
don't you ?

I say the solution should be capitalistic in nature.
First, the meters are almost certainly the property of the electric company. So, the power company should sue everybody to get its old meters back. If they turn out to have lost ownership of the meters, then the power company should unilaterally cancel their power distribution contract (an option which any civilized country should allow in a power distribution contract) after the mandatory waiting period.
Then, the power company should give them a simple choice - whoever wants to keep being provided with electric power from that company has to allow installation of a smart meter. After all, there is no obligativity to allow each and every customer, or if there is, it shouldn't exist.
If a different company shows up that wants to use the old style meters, let those people who refuse to use the new meters sign up with that power company instead. Or let them create their own power company and create their own electricity if they think they can do it better.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-07-28 22:42:07 UTC
Ok, no power for you then! P

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#5 - 2012-07-28 22:58:10 UTC
On the other hand, they COULD just use on-the-power-line communication methods, the technology exists, and should actually be more reliable than wireless communication. After all, you don't need to communicate anything if you're not actually using power.
Heck, there's even projects (I actually worked as supervisor on such an implementation project several years ago when I was still working for the power company) to actually use the power lines to provide internet access to homeowners. The smart meter could simply be just one more device in the local power company network.
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#6 - 2012-07-28 23:18:37 UTC
@Akita

Is there any reason why power companies don't install the meters at the pole, before the line enters the house? Kinda like they do with apartment complexes, where they have a bunch of meters in one spot, outside the units.

"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#7 - 2012-07-28 23:59:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Like I said, they could just as well go with wired instead of wireless smart meters, but for some reasons (most likely cost is a factor) they don't.
They also COULD indeed just as well place those meters at the pole instead too, but cost is most likely yet another factor (higher chance of vandalism, theft for "scrapmetal" value, possibly also needing some rewiring other than just hooking the new one).
It can be done though. But as you can see, the "radiation" thing (which is HEAVILY overblown, but let's consider just for the sake of continuing the argument that it's somewhat valid) is just one of several objections people have to the smart meters. If you "fix" that one, you're still left with the others.

P.S. How much do you want to bet that the couple used to have a big-ass CRT TV in the old days and never complained it irradiated them ? Or that they actually use cellphones, and they don't even bother to use a bluetooth headset with it and just hold it next to their temple ? Or that their microwave oven (that they probably have) is not necessarily well insulated ? Or maybe they could even be smokers ? Or that their home has many other potential minor health hazards they might not even be aware of yet, and which they'd probably still NOT take any steps to remedy even if they became aware of it due to the low chance of something bad happening compared to the cost of eliminating the issue ?
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#8 - 2012-07-29 00:00:57 UTC
Akita T wrote:
You mean
"Pigheaded redneck homeowners : 1, Logic and reason : 0"
don't you ?

I say the solution should be capitalistic in nature.
First, the meters are almost certainly the property of the electric company. So, the power company should sue everybody to get its old meters back. If they turn out to have lost ownership of the meters, then the power company should unilaterally cancel their power distribution contract (an option which any civilized country should allow in a power distribution contract) after the mandatory waiting period.
Then, the power company should give them a simple choice - whoever wants to keep being provided with electric power from that company has to allow installation of a smart meter. After all, there is no obligativity to allow each and every customer, or if there is, it shouldn't exist.
If a different company shows up that wants to use the old style meters, let those people who refuse to use the new meters sign up with that power company instead. Or let them create their own power company and create their own electricity if they think they can do it better.



What you are asking for is to give the power company full monopolistic control and allow them to dictate whatever terms they please. I can't vouch for every state but mine only has one power company so if we say no and they turn off the power then that's it, so the only choice is to say yes. Solar power is out of the question because in order to hook that up to the house a representative from the power company must come out and plug it in. And I can't imagine too many people who have millions to spend to just 'start up' a company of their own nor do I think state regulations will even allow that. Given the options here the power company can come in and do/say anything and we don't have a choice in the matter unless we want to go back to underground freezers and lanterns. See 2000-2001 California Power Scandal for an example.
I don't know what the hassle is about this meter but it appears to be optional as the power company in the video offered a choice after this incident.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#9 - 2012-07-29 00:12:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
What you are asking for is to give the power company full monopolistic control and allow them to dictate whatever terms they please.

I am asking for the ability to serve only select customers that agree to my terms of service.
It would only be a monopoly if there no other power company would be ALLOWED to operate in the area.
If such a monopoly actually exists, THAT monopoly should be broken.

Quote:
I can't vouch for every state but mine only has one power company so if we say no and they turn off the power then that's it, so the only choice is to say yes.

Quite a bit of Europe has competing power companies over a lot of housing areas (and not just for electricity, but also natural gas, where available). Picking an electricity provider should be just as convenient as picking an ISP or a cellphone company. There probably was a day when you only had one ISP or cellphone company to pick in an area, but now there's truckloads. Why shouldn't electric power be any different (or gas, or water, or any other utilities) ? It's after all a service, for which I expect to be competition (which SHOULD be better for the consumer anyway).
The fact the USA has a majority of areas served by a single power company could even be considered a failure of capitalism - if a demand for an alternative power company that has different terms of service exists, such a company should have been created.
The only reason other than abusive and downright monopolistic regulations existing (if they actually exist, they should be mowed down ASAP) for not having such a competing company would be that such a company would not be sufficiently profitable for some reason. If that's the case, it is unreasonable to ask a power company to bow down to consumer demands for a business model that would make them make less money overall or even lose money with specific individuals.
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#10 - 2012-07-29 01:37:25 UTC
Then its a overseas difference. I know we have one power company in my state and Hell's Canyon Dam sends power to California. I don't think the INEEL actually provides that much power for being a nuclear power plant, I believe they do more research than anything.
We do have wind farms going up everywhere but they are all going into the same grid and like I said you need to get permits and have a power official come out to hook up solar to the box.

So for you're idea to work we would have to jump many more hurdles. Our power company are subsidized by the government just as water and sewer is subsidized by the state.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#11 - 2012-07-29 01:40:11 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Our power company are subsidized by the government just as water and sewer is subsidized by the state.

How uncapitalistic of you guys Blink
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#12 - 2012-07-29 02:00:03 UTC
Akita T wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Our power company are subsidized by the government just as water and sewer is subsidized by the state.

How uncapitalistic of you guys Blink



We don't have to be capitalistic in everything in nature you know.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#13 - 2012-07-29 02:02:14 UTC
Yeah, but this one would actually be nice to be capitalistic in nature about.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-07-29 02:19:43 UTC
I have a hemorrhoid Sad

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Alara IonStorm
#15 - 2012-07-29 02:37:03 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
I have a hemorrhoid Sad

Now that I have found and absorbed this knowledge I have undertaken all 53 of the necessary steps as outlined in Plan Orange.

Except 26 as I did not have easy access to a 7 foot long banjo.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-07-29 04:06:56 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
I have a hemorrhoid Sad

Now that I have found and absorbed this knowledge I have undertaken all 53 of the necessary steps as outlined in Plan Orange.

Except 26 as I did not have easy access to a 7 foot long banjo.


Well you'd better get to work finding one! Are you trying to **** off the Commandant???

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#17 - 2012-07-29 08:54:02 UTC
Akita T wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
What you are asking for is to give the power company full monopolistic control and allow them to dictate whatever terms they please.

I am asking for the ability to serve only select customers that agree to my terms of service.
It would only be a monopoly if there no other power company would be ALLOWED to operate in the area.
If such a monopoly actually exists, THAT monopoly should be broken.

Quote:
I can't vouch for every state but mine only has one power company so if we say no and they turn off the power then that's it, so the only choice is to say yes.

Quite a bit of Europe has competing power companies over a lot of housing areas (and not just for electricity, but also natural gas, where available). Picking an electricity provider should be just as convenient as picking an ISP or a cellphone company. There probably was a day when you only had one ISP or cellphone company to pick in an area, but now there's truckloads. Why shouldn't electric power be any different (or gas, or water, or any other utilities) ? It's after all a service, for which I expect to be competition (which SHOULD be better for the consumer anyway).
The fact the USA has a majority of areas served by a single power company could even be considered a failure of capitalism - if a demand for an alternative power company that has different terms of service exists, such a company should have been created.
The only reason other than abusive and downright monopolistic regulations existing (if they actually exist, they should be mowed down ASAP) for not having such a competing company would be that such a company would not be sufficiently profitable for some reason. If that's the case, it is unreasonable to ask a power company to bow down to consumer demands for a business model that would make them make less money overall or even lose money with specific individuals.


Well in the last years Spain suffered the "liberalization" of energy market as per our EU overlords, ant it turned to be quite silly because a), base (minimum) energy prices still are set by the government, b), taxes on the energy also are set by the government, and c), power plants are pretty much monopolistic all around as every company used to owe every power plant on a territory, and none can afford to buy or sell them.

So it turns that most companies buy power/gas from other companies and then resell it for whatever margin they see fit, at the minimal price set by the government.

Which means that the average offer for the end user it's like a 5% discount on the hooking fee, which in turn it's about 10% of the actual energy bill... Obviously, the average homeowner won't bother to shift company for a saving of some 5 euros per year... Lol

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#18 - 2012-07-29 11:18:54 UTC
Wait...they have the electric meter on the outside of the property?

Hardly what I would call 'smart'.

Mines internal, like the water meter and the gas stopcock. If anyone needs to take a reading or do maintenance, I have to be in the property.

AK

This space for rent.

Nirnias Stirrum
UberWTFBBQ and Battle Technologies
#19 - 2012-07-30 12:02:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Nirnias Stirrum
I dunno how it is over there in Amurika, but over hear we dont own the meters, the companies do. Hence why they are on the outside of the house.

If she doesnt own the meter i.e if its included in her bills, she had no right to stop the person.

Yet another reason why people with guns is a bad idea. fools.
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#20 - 2012-07-30 12:33:44 UTC
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:
I dunno how it over there in Amurika, but over hear we dont own the meters, the companies do. Hence why they are on the outside of the house.

If she doesnt own the meter i.e if its included in her bills, she had no right to stop the person.

Yet another reason why people with guns is a bad idea. fools.


There might be some laws regarding power meters. Maybe some clause on the contract between the home owner (client) and the power company. Public Utilities might be a special case. That said...

If company/person own something that is in your property, that doesn't give them the right to just enter and take it. If that were the case, imagine a few trolls trowing basketball balls in your backyard all day long and jumping your fence to retrieve what's theirs.






"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"

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