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The simple solution to Wars and Victory!

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Tuireann Naari
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-07-29 09:08:49 UTC
That's the thing about being on the defensive.

You have to wait for the aggressors to do something.
Alara IonStorm
#22 - 2012-07-29 09:17:39 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:

highsec was designed as a casual-friendly area where people can fight each other just because they want to, without having to worry about who "wins" or "loses".

I'm sorry I get your point and agree with the concept of your post.

It's just the saying the underlined part in the land of Slaved Vindicators on the Undock with 3 Unaggressed Neutral instant docking RR Ships...

I think the problem with High Sec wars is they care a little too much about wins and losses in a very non casual way.

Made me laugh a lil bit.
Mishra Ninghor
The Scarlet Storm
#23 - 2012-07-29 10:59:46 UTC
Tuireann Naari wrote:
That's the thing about being on the defensive.

You have to wait for the aggressors to do something.


No, it's the problem with EVE War mechanics. All the power is put in the hands of the agressor. This would provide a way to turn things around and go on the offensive, to actually make continiueing the war so unbearable that it would end.

Are all you guys afraid to get your asses kicked here?
ISD Dosnix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#24 - 2012-07-29 11:04:30 UTC
Moved to "Features&Ideas Discussion"

ISD Dosnix

[b]ISD Dosnix Lieutenant Community Communication Liasons (CCL) Interstellar Service Department[/b]
Mishra Ninghor
The Scarlet Storm
#25 - 2012-07-29 11:05:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Mishra Ninghor
Ludi Burek wrote:
I must have missed the "simple" part.


It is simple:
1. Add a space base to the game in S/M/L/XL variants.
2. Force Corporations to station them somewhere in the system where their offices are located.
3. Recuire the agressor in a war to keep his base up in order for the fight to continiue. And gives you something to kill if your opponent refuses to come out and play.

In other words if you're not strong enough to defend your base, or rich enough to replace it. You don't get to wardec anyone.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-07-29 11:07:37 UTC
Don't pick up the ball, it you don't want to play...

You can stay in a noob corp of you don't want to get war dec'ed, making a player run corp means more rewards and more risk.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Mishra Ninghor
The Scarlet Storm
#27 - 2012-07-29 13:37:05 UTC
dexington wrote:
Don't pick up the ball, it you don't want to play...

You can stay in a noob corp of you don't want to get war dec'ed, making a player run corp means more rewards and more risk.


More risk for who? The attacking corp takes no risk at all.

Attacking corp:
Loosing the war, want to stop? Just stop paying.
Winning the war, want to go on? Just keep paying.
Loosing the war, but still want to go on? Just keep paying.
Winning the war, want to stop? Just stop paying.

Defending corp:
Loosing the war, want to stop? Haha, nothing you can do.
Winning the war, want to keep going? Sure, if the attacker wants to keep going he can.
Loosing the war, but still wants to go on? Sure, if the attacker wants to keep going he can.
Winning the war, want to end it? Haha, nothing you can do, it keeps going for as long as the looser wants to.

This doesn't ******* remove risk, it ADDS risk. If youre the defender, and you loose your starbase, you have to live with a constant debuff or put up a new one. If you're the attacker, and you loose your starbase, you have to live with a constant debuff and if you want to keep going with the war, you have to put up a new one.

Are you all shitting in your pants when someone mentions the possibility of a war backfiring?
Austneal
Nero Fazione
#28 - 2012-07-29 14:23:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Austneal
Mishra Ninghor wrote:
dexington wrote:
Don't pick up the ball, it you don't want to play...

You can stay in a noob corp of you don't want to get war dec'ed, making a player run corp means more rewards and more risk.


More risk for who? The attacking corp takes no risk at all.

Attacking corp:
Loosing the war, want to stop? Just stop paying.
Winning the war, want to go on? Just keep paying.
Loosing the war, but still want to go on? Just keep paying.
Winning the war, want to stop? Just stop paying.

Defending corp:
Loosing the war, want to stop? Haha, nothing you can do.
Winning the war, want to keep going? Sure, if the attacker wants to keep going he can.
Loosing the war, but still wants to go on? Sure, if the attacker wants to keep going he can.
Winning the war, want to end it? Haha, nothing you can do, it keeps going for as long as the looser wants to.

This doesn't ******* remove risk, it ADDS risk. If youre the defender, and you loose your starbase, you have to live with a constant debuff or put up a new one. If you're the attacker, and you loose your starbase, you have to live with a constant debuff and if you want to keep going with the war, you have to put up a new one.

Are you all shitting in your pants when someone mentions the possibility of a war backfiring?

I'm currently going through the same thing you're describing. Only difference is, we're actually contemplating our options, and trying to attack when we can.

They don't hold all the power, you're just too scared to apply your own. This is Eve... and having your back against the wall, flailing for your life is part of it. And tbh, I think they gave defenders too much power as it is with the wardec changes.

Also, your proposed changes are bad. Eve needs less arbitrary wardec fees and loopholes, and more people growing a spine and pewing things.
Mishra Ninghor
The Scarlet Storm
#29 - 2012-07-29 14:55:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Mishra Ninghor
Austneal wrote:

I'm currently going through the same thing you're describing. Only difference is, we're actually contemplating our options, and trying to attack when we can.

They don't hold all the power, you're just too scared to apply your own. This is Eve... and having your back against the wall, flailing for your life is part of it. And tbh, I think they gave defenders too much power as it is with the wardec changes.

Also, your proposed changes are bad. Eve needs less arbitrary wardec fees and loopholes, and more people growing a spine and pewing things.


I haven't logged in today but I think the current state of the war like like 1,5 billions losses (agressor) vs 70-80m on our side. So please stop saying it's people who don't fight back that whine.

I don't want to be at war, I wanna kick his ass and end it. But he's the only one that can decide to do so. And that's what I have a problem with.

Right now there's no incentive to fight, in fact the most commonly used strategy vs these kinds of wardecs is to use cheap ships so that the agressor looses more money then he spends and gets no good kills. And in that way making him so boored fighting us that he decides to stop.

I mean WTF?!
Raphael Celestine
Celestine Inc.
#30 - 2012-07-29 18:45:48 UTC
The defender has two ways to win a war already: break the opposition's will, or their wallet.

Normally that should be quite sufficient for a 1000-man corp facing down a 10-man corp; it sounds like you've just been unlucky in being war-decced by someone with more guts (and ISK) than sense. Lol

I don't think that's a problem, TBH: if someone has enough money to handle a 20:1 loss ratio, and is determined enough to keep fighting despite getting their asses handed to them like that, why shouldn't they be allowed to?

Mishra Ninghor wrote:
I don't want to be at war, I wanna kick his ass and end it. But he's the only one that can decide to do so. And that's what I have a problem with.

If you're kicking his ass and he keeps getting back up and coming at you again, you're not kicking it hard enough. You certainly do have a problem, but it's not the one you seem to think. Twisted
ian papabear
No Regard.
#31 - 2012-07-29 18:58:22 UTC
You make it sound like when us null sec guys get deced by you empire scrubs that we are afraid and actually having our operations hindered when in fact none of that is happening.

.
Mishra Ninghor
The Scarlet Storm
#32 - 2012-07-29 19:12:04 UTC
Raphael Celestine wrote:

If you're kicking his ass and he keeps getting back up and coming at you again, you're not kicking it hard enough. You certainly do have a problem, but it's not the one you seem to think. Twisted


My problem is I can't drag him out of his station, and I can't punish him for sitting in it waiting the war out. I want it ******* end, and I'm willing to fight for it. He might be beat the first day of the war, but the war is still going to last for a full week. And there's no incentive for him to capitulate because he would have to pay more for that then he would simply waiting the war out.

Quote:
You make it sound like when us null sec guys get deced by you empire scrubs that we are afraid and actually having our operations hindered when in fact none of that is happening.


There's a big difference between having to travel through 20 hostile systems in a row where you can't dock you can't do ****. And getting wardecced by a guy that pretty much sits himself in your home base and waits to to kill random people. When you see someone coming, you can kill them, probe them, ignore them or whatever. And there's no way for him to simply sit himself down in your starbase waiting for one of you to undock solo.
Raphael Celestine
Celestine Inc.
#33 - 2012-07-29 20:21:54 UTC
Mishra Ninghor wrote:
My problem is I can't drag him out of his station, and I can't punish him for sitting in it waiting the war out. I want it ******* end, and I'm willing to fight for it. He might be beat the first day of the war, but the war is still going to last for a full week. And there's no incentive for him to capitulate because he would have to pay more for that then he would simply waiting the war out.

Honestly, I don't quite see the problem here. Either he's willing to shoot at you, or he isn't.

If he is willing to shoot you, then you also have the option of shooting him. You might have to bait him out first, of course, but killing him a few times after he undocks to shoot someone who made a 'mistake' will make him think twice about taking you on when someone does make a mistake later.

If he's not willing to shoot you (or not willing to engage outside of docking-range of a station) then your only real 'problem' is that there's a line of text on your corp description that says 'at war with X'. That's not really a major handicap.
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