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What order are skills, role bonuses, and ship bonuses applied?

Author
Spr09
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-07-28 23:32:12 UTC
I've been playing eve for a while now, and this has been bugging me lately on which order everything is applied. I notice that having some skills to 5 and getting a 25% damage bonus from skills and a 25% bonus from the ships does a lot more than just giving a 50% bonus.

Can anyone help me?
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#2 - 2012-07-28 23:34:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
Sure. In your example, 1.25 * 1.25 = 1.5625 > 1.5.

Edit: to be more clear, most bonuses are applied multiplicatively. Bonuses from modules are subject to what is known as a stacking penalty, wherein multiple modules affecting a single stat have diminishing return (although the largest effect is always applied "first"; that is, it does not have any diminished effect). But all in all, since multiplication is commutative, these things don't really have an "order" per se.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-07-29 00:05:15 UTC
Everything in eve is multiplicitive. So if you have a tempest (5% bonus to damage and 5% bonus to range) with guns and 1 damage mod on it, and you have BS lvl 5, damage is calculated:

Base Damage X 1.25 X 1/0.75 X 1.105 X 1/0.1
Note, you can organize that multiplication however you want. The only difference is when you get to stacking penalties, but as long as you have the correct number of stacking penalties applied to the right bonuses, the order doesn't matter.

-Arazel
Saile Litestrider
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-07-29 00:25:49 UTC
Arazel Chainfire wrote:
Everything in eve is multiplicitive. So if you have a tempest (5% bonus to damage and 5% bonus to range) with guns and 1 damage mod on it, and you have BS lvl 5, damage is calculated:

Base Damage X 1.25 X 1/0.75 X 1.105 X 1/0.1
Note, you can organize that multiplication however you want. The only difference is when you get to stacking penalties, but as long as you have the correct number of stacking penalties applied to the right bonuses, the order doesn't matter.

-Arazel

If you're wanting to calculate stacking penalties across uneven effects (where order would matter), unless I'm mistaken it always starts with the largest bonus and works its way down, so if for some reason you have a Navy Invuln, an Invuln II, and an Invuln I, the Navy Invuln will operate at 100%, the T2 will run at 87%, and the T1 at 57%. This helps prevent several minor effects overshadowing one major effect, for example someone's light dampener drones won't render an Arazu's bonused dampeners ineffective.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#5 - 2012-07-29 00:32:49 UTC
Saile Litestrider wrote:
If you're wanting to calculate stacking penalties across uneven effects (where order would matter), unless I'm mistaken it always starts with the largest bonus and works its way down, so if for some reason you have a Navy Invuln, an Invuln II, and an Invuln I, the Navy Invuln will operate at 100%, the T2 will run at 87%, and the T1 at 57%. This helps prevent several minor effects overshadowing one major effect, for example someone's light dampener drones won't render an Arazu's bonused dampeners ineffective.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


That's correct. The largest modifier is applied without penalty and then they apply at decreased effectiveness from there (86.9%, 57.1%, 28.3%, 10.6%, 3.0%, 0.6%, and whoever fits the eighth is just being silly).
Aamrr
#6 - 2012-07-29 01:00:34 UTC
Really, whoever fits the sixth is being silly. RoF can be stacked to five on complete carebear ships, and the Aeon will stack resists to five, but nobody ever uses six.
Saile Litestrider
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-07-29 01:06:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Saile Litestrider
Aamrr wrote:
Really, whoever fits the sixth is being silly. RoF can be stacked to five on complete carebear ships, and the Aeon will stack resists to five, but nobody ever uses six.

Hey now, an 8th invuln II on a scorpion increases my EHP from 47,427 to 47,436! Do you know what most people would pay for 9 EHP? Probably very little. Lol

The stacking penalty on the 8th module is 0.01%, if anyone is interested in some useless trivia Smile
Edit: mistyped, it's actually 0.1%, totally worthwhile! Roll

And yes, if you're being realistic, never, ever, ever fit that 6th mod, there's always something better.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-07-29 04:30:48 UTC
Saile Litestrider wrote:
Aamrr wrote:
Really, whoever fits the sixth is being silly. RoF can be stacked to five on complete carebear ships, and the Aeon will stack resists to five, but nobody ever uses six.

Hey now, an 8th invuln II on a scorpion increases my EHP from 47,427 to 47,436! Do you know what most people would pay for 9 EHP? Probably very little. Lol

The stacking penalty on the 8th module is 0.01%, if anyone is interested in some useless trivia Smile

And yes, if you're being realistic, never, ever, ever fit that 6th mod, there's always something better.


Won't stop people from fitting 8 sebos to get on killmails.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#9 - 2012-07-29 04:50:31 UTC
Saile Litestrider wrote:
The stacking penalty on the 8th module is 0.01%, if anyone is interested in some useless trivia Smile


I'll raise you several significant figures: 0.001034920471206
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#10 - 2012-07-29 07:43:42 UTC
Spr09 wrote:
I've been playing eve for a while now, and this has been bugging me lately on which order everything is applied.


Simple answer: It does not matter.

And bonuses aren't applied additively (10%+10%=+20%), but by multiplication (110%*110%=121%).

The only thing that matters is how bonuses that have a stacking penalty (e.g. +damage rigs and +damage modules) are applied, and the rule is simple - they are applied in the order that will result in the highest overall bonus.

Skill, implant, ship and role bonuses are do not have a stacking penalty with anything else.