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Please change the Hulks Exhumer 3% ore yield bonus into a 3% reduced cycle time and capacitor use (like how it works with ice mining). Without this change for many detailed reasons, using the Hulk over a Mackinaw does not make a whole lot of sense.

Yes that includes its described role too!

I know, you can never win the argument on the internet with a kid.

Try some mining some time and once you figure out how it works, get back to me.

ITT - lazy miners want max yield/easy mode hulk.

I will repeat myself again, the vast majority of PVP ships CANNOT carry every single type of ammo they have avalible to them, with the exception of amarr ships.

Quit you b-tching. Your just making yourselves look like idiots. CCP is giving you (and me, I guess, because I'll probably mine on the side when drunk), a god damn mining ship that can tank better then the vast majority of Heavy cruisers and battlecruisers I have ever flown! AND you still want more? Accept it, the hulk IS NOT suited for what you all want to do, use the one that is.

And on top of all this, I hope to god that everyone here who is asking for more crystal space is deep in null-sec. Because if your in high sec, I hope the sentry guns malfunction and pop you on the undock, because you only have 4 ore types in HS, and each ship can hold enough for that.


You have orca bonuses for that, use it. Hulks bonuses are fine.

For the ship that is supposed to yield the most per minute a small ore hold, hurt's the most. Boosts it even more in a fleet and you have to micromanage a lot and two things can happen on a regular basis:

1. You are distracted and your hold fills up, miners and one by one miners and drones stop working.
2. You can't in a timely fashion keep track of the status of each targeted rock and you run your miners too long.

The micromanaging related to point two is actually worsened in a fleet do to the faster cycle time while yield per cycle stays the same! These disadvantages reduce the hulks theoretical effectiveness advantage in a max yield environment.

Changing the bonus will accomplish three things:

1. You can fit closer to two full mine cycles in your ore hold, without expanding the ore hold by much or at all (did not do the exact math on that, but the effect itself is clear).
2. By having less yield per cycle, but faster cycles, the potential for wasted cycles and the need to micromanage a lot just to come close to theoretical max yield is reduced by 15%.
3. The yield of the new Hulk would no longer be 1.9% nerfed for ore mining versus what it is now.


The downside of faster crystals usage can either be solved by reducing crystals size (my preference) or increase the cargo hold of the hulk by say 20%. That would make the cargo hold 600 m3 and provide a bit more versatility too.

You see, the Hulk has compared to the Mackinaw several big drawbacks and its practical yield will not be close to the 15.5% theoretical number. It suffers form obscene micromanagement issues, especially in fleets. I would go as far as to state, it is the best solo miner if you can use jet cans and pick up the ore later. IN all other cases as it is, I would prefer the Mackinaw over the hulk for:

* More tank
* More ore hold
* Less micromanagement and more forgiving (less turrets to keep track of)
* Less crystal degradation in the hand of a skilled miner, while proportionally the cargo bay is of equal size as that of the Hulk.

I really cannot see why one would use Hulks in a large fleet. Every time someone says that the logic is based on the higher theoretical yield and its relative vulnerability. But how having large disadvantages is somehow advantageous in a fleet is beyond me...sounds like crap to me. And given that all mining vessels benefit form being in a fleet and the hulk is the most vulnerable to downsides from being in one...what is exactly its role again?

The concept and theory crafting behind it just fails if it is not distinct enough in a positive way. The yield alone is clearly not enough to give it a purpose, but we can improve that by making mining in the hulk more efficient. Not by increasing theoretical yield further, but by increasing the practical yield.

Hence the need for the bonus change, because as it stands now, the Hulk is only good for solo mining without fleet bonus when you think about it. Only in that scenario will it have a clear enough advantage going for it, compared to the Mackinaw.

Granted clear enough is subjective, but given so many thing affecting your income, ore yield being only of medium importance, there must be more going for the Hulk then theoretical yield benefits in the order of 15%. And don;t get me even started if we are going a bit more tank on the hulk to close the EHP gap with the Mackinaw.

This is a ship revamp, its not supposed to be the same as before. You need to adapt to these changes as they come. I will agree with you on the fact that each barge should have a scaled cargo hold based on the number of lasers it has, so it can carry a REASONABLE amount of reserve crystals. But there is absolutely no way in hell you should be able to carry crystals for every single type of ore in existence.

You really think so? No, maybe they arn't in direct combat for 5 hours straight, but they can be away from any form of supply source for even longer then that, if the fleet didnt bring any haulers with it.

oh really things are meant to change? sure. however the issue that needs addressing currently just makes the mackinaw the new hulk. you just jump in to a mackinaw instead of a hulk without thought. that's why they are changing it because it's a situation they want to move away from but won't be.
it's got nothing to do with adapting; it's about pointing out the situation they want to get away from isn't changing on a fundamental level.

exactly if the cargo was scaled the issue would go away; **** me the issue would have gone away if they left it at 500 like they did with the t1 variant instead of cutting it down to 350.
and if the cargo was left at 500 we wouldn't have been able to carry every one; but we'd have enough space for a reasonable subset.

Not only need miners replacement crystals, they need to switch to different ores too, whereas in combat, two types of ammo is generally all you use, also knowing many of the ships carrying ammo never get to use even a small percentage of it before dying.

Meaning, there is plenty to pick up from the field as is.

able to fit 3 mining upgrades vs 2 so 9% bonus!

fits 3 mining upgrades and more cargo space so you'll be hauling less which is an indirect yield bonus etc.