Player Features and Ideas Discussion

put the gun down.
Of course on a T1 scale/magnitude and not that grossly epeen-overpowered crap of T3 :D.
Those few t3 ones you may be referring to are likewise cookie cutters.

but fact is that there would be a lot more versatility if players could develop or implement their own ship bonuses and special hardpoints like

rifter - med turret hardpoint with tracking speed penalties
what ever. It is too complex to spam here right ow.
but basically, the bonus comes with (notable) penalties, unlike T3 that just gets everything like a carebear's wet dream.


so dont assume we would be exaggerating like T3. .=)
every ship should have or get teeth

I can understand the ships that are stepping stones tot heir T2 versions getting role bonuses.

Like the pre interceptors, the pre Ewar, and the pre scout/explorer.

But the T1 combat ships (Amarr being the Punisher, the Inquisitor, and now the Tormentor) would be roleless, leaving it up to the player to choose how they want to fly the ship (for better or for worse).

Right now, I can do a close range Tormentor (works ok as long as I don't encounter a high EM/Thrm resist) or a longish range kiter Tormentor (works good against blasters using a TD).


With cruisers, the Arbi would get a TD bonus (or nuet...), the Arugrer thing would get a logi bonus, and the Omen and Maller would not receive any special role bonus, leaving it up to the player.


I think the pure combat ships should remain roleless, while the ones that are true stepping stones to T2 have roles that reflect their general progression.

Whoa yeah. I did not think about it that way myself. That pretty much sums it up. After all, if there are HACs, what's so bad about having others have other key aspects than just being ships collecting dust since doctrines and other stuff hinders their use?


My only issue with the revamp is dumbing down and equalizing everything across the board of racial ships. We had that crap in WoW. Please don't do it here. It's the variety that counts - and I'm not referring to the looks of dem interwebz spess ships.

I'm not sure what happened here, but it wasn't English.

Very much this. QFT, please read.

This is more for a different thread because it goes a different direction.
On the other hand, it is just one small reason why we're all forced to put up with the "Role Fever" now.

One reason why there is One-Ship'itis because a wide number of medium/semi-large (and even large) sized vessels:


a) can still track if they are far off. The current system of SIG RES (inaccuracy of turrets) doesn't help much here either. It would be cool to see if this value could be "nerfed" a bit ; while introducing buddy-support modules improving it, so there is more teamplay and need for Support ships like Scythe etc.

b) -- and pretty much all of them - can spam drones. Practically everybody can just spam drones.

c) ships are resilient a brick of unobtainium at times, while still being able to blast everything down; e.g. Command Ships

d) Okay, missiles. Thing is that they are like pizza delivery. Even if the the pizza gets cold on the way, you can still eat it (ymmv).
Point of that is that even if one is flying fast with Afterburners, they'll still die as the load of missile spam/dmg bleedthrough just kills them within short time.
Maybe AB could apply a flat % dmg reduction based on specific skills. *But that's a different topic.

x) more crap, but I'll save you from that one.


Medium Turrets are pretty much the best trade off for DMG and TRACKING. Adding in a resilient ship with bonuses to DMG just makes it more untouchable for other vessel types or strategies, pretty much forcing the other side to spam the same thing or something alike.

There has to be some sigificant changes. Breaking the ice is a good thing here; especially bringing variety and distinct aspects to the three turret types (180mm, 220mm, 425mm proj on Minmatar side) - and not just "tracks faster, lower dmg". But that too will is derail-material.


As the way currently things are, there is a lot of Winmatar. The I-WIN torch is always being handed on. You can't stop it really, but there is a way to let every side have a chance.


If rock-scissor-papers is to work, then we have to take away some of the scissors ability of cutting the rock - as it should only be paper cutting paper.To stop I-WIN, there has to be siginificant combo-breaking - and CCP is going the right way with this revamp.

We just need to make sure that all is said and taken into CCP's account/evaluation/attention, regardless if one likes it or not and regardless if a post has 1 char or uses the full 6k.





I would avoid going too deep into RPScissors but that is true.

The reason why you saw mixed fleet types and ships is because FW is a loose bunch - which is great. They are actually showing that EVE can be fun without the doctrine spam. Nobody can force 0.0 Alliances into that, but there has to be more variety of some sort when it comes to fitting ships as well as taking them into consideration.

Also, T1 vessels should be in some way desired so that new players can play a significant role than just being told to "Come back later when you trained up to Scimitar".


But as you said it, RSP is a concept I'd follow too.
That is why I was sort of intending to suggest a few more ship classes that use similar hulls, so that one does not have to worry that we "Suggestioneers" don't break their precious Vagabond, Drake etc.

The classes must have a widespread take on RSPaper - but not like how it is right now.

One last thing. You see Tengu fleets because CCP just basically put a crapton of awesome stuff into one ship hull. Rather than spreading it across all ships.

You're basically talking about T3. Really, it should be like this:

T1 - Does 2 or 3 things well, but not much else.
T2 - Does one thing very well, but poor at everything else (one variant for each thing that the T1 version is good at.)
T3 - Player chooses what it does well, balanced by making it poor at everything else. Like T1, but with player choice.

I think I need to clarify my earlier statement about not wanting "rock paper scissors in space"

What I meant is I don't want ships to become so specialized that we have too many instances of "ship X will pretty much always kill ship Y" (this is going to be the case for some ships but it should be the exception rather than the rule)

As I said earlier.

We need more rifters.

Idk but most you ppl are way over thinking this. First off it's a role playing game. having all t1 drugs the sand.or even close is just plain stupid and pointless. That makes the game predictable and boring. The ships are given roles to make it feel.more realistic.

Think of ships as cars. Or guns. there is a reason they are not all identical. Different manufactures different areas and needs,
and the ppl making them have different views and wants.

the Ships need roles without the game would suck. But I like having my own personal ship.

so the only possible solution I can see is just give them 2 roles
Or even 3, 2main roles and one sub, or minor role. This give ships the ability to have a mix of different roles
Idk just rambling now ..

I'm not sure what you mean here. How would it make them pointless? The only reason, for example, Cruisers beat destroyers is because destroyers are big and slow enough to be consistently hit by medium guns (unlike frigates.) Toss a destroyer up against something that uses large turrets and all of a sudden it's a much different scenario. This is how it currently works, btw, although not as well as it should once the number of pilots on grid hits 50+ or so.