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Mining barge changes [now with feedback]
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Dave stark
#381 - 2012-07-28 07:36:17 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Sigras wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
also a quick comment on downgrading to t1 strips on the hulk; that puts the mackinaw at a higher yield, tank, and cargo capacity. hence we go back to the situation we're in now. except we're all flying mackinaws.

you mean except those of us who are smart enough to organize our own logistics chain and have our haulers not waste their trips to the belt.

My fleet will still be mining in hulks thank you.


once again; the hulk should not be a case of "only works in fleets". it should be "works best in fleets"

I think the process of communication has broken down . . . seriously it "works" if when you target an asterroid and turn the lasers on, you get ore when the cycle finishes. Everything else is gravy.

Now I understand that it doesnt do everything that you want it to do, but neither do ANY of my PvP ships, do they not "work" either?

What is your definition of "works"


let's go back to choices. the choice to downgrade to t1 strips isn't there. it just turns the mackinaw in to the "i do everything better" ship between the two. which is what you said is wrong with the current system.

i don't want the hulk to be the only choice either; i just don't want it to *only* work in one situation. removing the crystal issue gives you three clear cut choices for solo mining; hulk for lots of isk, mackinaw for lots of alt tabbed film watching, and the skiff for paranoid people who like to taunt gankers.

even if we do relegate the hulk to fleet only; which i won't have a problem with the crystal issue still exists. again, if you're running a multi corp op then it just makes resupplying cystals a hassle. if i could just take them from the corp hangar of the orca i'm in a fleet with that'd be nice and dandy but it just doesn't work like that. i don't object to having to have the support there if it wasn't such a pain in the ass even with support. let's face it most booster characters are some one's alt that's tabbed out or logged in.

no system will ever be perfect, and i accept that. however when there are some simple solutions to some not very complex problems it's somewhat irritating.
Sigras
Conglomo
#382 - 2012-07-28 07:39:53 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Sigras wrote:
Had you done any mining of mercoxit at all you would know that the skiff was no better at it than the hulk, the 60% bonus barely edged out the hulk at mining mercoxit, and the fact that it couldnt tank the rats out there was a huge deterrant. Also the gas cloud bonus is negligable because the DCSM has a range of 25 and the gas cloud has a range of 5, so you were never in any danger there either . . . im sorry, who just blew their credibility?


considering you think a 16% mining yield difference is "no better", you just blew your credibility i believe.

edit:missclicking on excel is awesome

You fixed that in between me clicking reply and the reply page loading. I was gonna ask where you were getting your numbers.

I did not say "no better" i said "barely edged out" and yes, it is barely edging it out because dead skiffs dont mine anything. especially when mercoxit is like <8% of the ore we usually mine anyway.

The skiff has less tank, and less cap, so we decided that its better just to use hulks especially since some of our fleet only had exhumers 4 which makes the difference <2%

That and we're really smart, we use orcas to refit in the field so you can go from mining mercoxit to mining everything else without even having to leave the belt.
Sigras
Conglomo
#383 - 2012-07-28 07:42:04 UTC
Droxlyn wrote:
Sigras wrote:

What is your definition of "works"


Not taking away something that we could do before.

You realize that by that definition there isnt a ship in the game that "works"

When this game launched in 2003 you could fit armor repairers in the mid slots, my CEO still has a merlin fit that way.

We cant do that any more, so none of the ships in game work . . . oh no, time to go back to WoW because they never nerf anything and just let power creep rule the day . . .
Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#384 - 2012-07-28 07:46:57 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Droxlyn wrote:
Sigras wrote:

What is your definition of "works"


Not taking away something that we could do before.

You realize that by that definition there isnt a ship in the game that "works"

When this game launched in 2003 you could fit armor repairers in the mid slots, my CEO still has a merlin fit that way.

We cant do that any more, so none of the ships in game work . . . oh no, time to go back to WoW because they never nerf anything and just let power creep rule the day . . .


I didn't know armor repairers were mid-slot items once.

Personally, I think every ship should have at least 2 weapon hard points, preferably more. If the game lore says the universe is dangerous, then any ship engineer who pretends that isn't true should be put in a leather sack to test its capability in a vacuum.

Drox
Dave stark
#385 - 2012-07-28 07:48:32 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Sigras wrote:
Had you done any mining of mercoxit at all you would know that the skiff was no better at it than the hulk, the 60% bonus barely edged out the hulk at mining mercoxit, and the fact that it couldnt tank the rats out there was a huge deterrant. Also the gas cloud bonus is negligable because the DCSM has a range of 25 and the gas cloud has a range of 5, so you were never in any danger there either . . . im sorry, who just blew their credibility?


considering you think a 16% mining yield difference is "no better", you just blew your credibility i believe.

edit:missclicking on excel is awesome

You fixed that in between me clicking reply and the reply page loading. I was gonna ask where you were getting your numbers.

I did not say "no better" i said "barely edged out" and yes, it is barely edging it out because dead skiffs dont mine anything. especially when mercoxit is like <8% of the ore we usually mine anyway.

The skiff has less tank, and less cap, so we decided that its better just to use hulks especially since some of our fleet only had exhumers 4 which makes the difference <2%

That and we're really smart, we use orcas to refit in the field so you can go from mining mercoxit to mining everything else without even having to leave the belt.


i'll refrain from making a snide comment about being able to mine in scalding pass.

Sigras wrote:
you would know that the skiff was no better at it than the hulk


also
if you're mining in a fleet, who cares about tank?
Dave stark
#386 - 2012-07-28 07:49:52 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Droxlyn wrote:
Sigras wrote:

What is your definition of "works"


Not taking away something that we could do before.

You realize that by that definition there isnt a ship in the game that "works"

When this game launched in 2003 you could fit armor repairers in the mid slots, my CEO still has a merlin fit that way.

We cant do that any more, so none of the ships in game work . . . oh no, time to go back to WoW because they never nerf anything and just let power creep rule the day . . .


i can understand nerfing things when they're out of line; but is being able to carry a full compliment of crystals really that unbalanced?
Sigras
Conglomo
#387 - 2012-07-28 08:08:33 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Sigras wrote:
Dave stark wrote:

once again; the hulk should not be a case of "only works in fleets". it should be "works best in fleets"

I think the process of communication has broken down . . . seriously it "works" if when you target an asterroid and turn the lasers on, you get ore when the cycle finishes. Everything else is gravy.

Now I understand that it doesnt do everything that you want it to do, but neither do ANY of my PvP ships, do they not "work" either?

What is your definition of "works"


let's go back to choices. the choice to downgrade to t1 strips isn't there. it just turns the mackinaw in to the "i do everything better" ship between the two. which is what you said is wrong with the current system.


Agreed, a Hulk with strip 1s would be 6% worse than a mack or a skiff with strip 2s so that really isnt an option, but if you want to mine without having to redock to get different crystals, why not mine with the skiff?

Dave stark wrote:
i don't want the hulk to be the only choice either; i just don't want it to *only* work in one situation. removing the crystal issue gives you three clear cut choices for solo mining; hulk for lots of isk, mackinaw for lots of alt tabbed film watching, and the skiff for paranoid people who like to taunt gankers.


again we have this word "work" CCP said that they want the hulk to be a fleet ship, if you want to fly it solo it will work in that capacity, you just may have to dock 3 times a belt to get more crystals. Just like how they designed the vagabond to be a shield ship; if I want to fit armor mods to it, I can but it wont be as effective as if I use it in the role for which it is designed.

I think we're getting the words "work" and "maximum efficiency" confused.

Dave stark wrote:
even if we do relegate the hulk to fleet only; which i won't have a problem with the crystal issue still exists. again, if you're running a multi corp op then it just makes resupplying cystals a hassle. if i could just take them from the corp hangar of the orca i'm in a fleet with that'd be nice and dandy but it just doesn't work like that. i don't object to having to have the support there if it wasn't such a pain in the ass even with support. let's face it most booster characters are some one's alt that's tabbed out or logged in.

no system will ever be perfect, and i accept that. however when there are some simple solutions to some not very complex problems it's somewhat irritating.


well, corp hangers and fleet logistics are another issue I could go on and on about, but really, how hard is it for a hulk to jet a can and tell the hauler that he'd like XYZ crystals please. I do agree that they need a better way for non corp members to access a corporate hanger in a ship, but jetting a can isnt really that much trouble, especially given how long crystals last.

But im not suggesting that you use a booster character, when we do fleet mining ops, its an orca or two hauling to my rorqual in a POS which is compressing the ore.
Sigras
Conglomo
#388 - 2012-07-28 08:11:58 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Sigras wrote:
you would know that the skiff was no better at it than the hulk


Hmmm . . . i stand corrected, though in my defense that statement was clearly not made simply about mining yield but about the ship as a whole.

Dave stark wrote:
also
if you're mining in a fleet, who cares about tank?


Anyone who doesnt want to be the one first targeted by the rats?
Dave stark
#389 - 2012-07-28 08:14:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
the only thing i disagree with in regards to your last post is with regards to the hulk vs mackinaw.

my hulk should be able to sit in a belt and mine for as long as a mackinaw (which it can't do as it will run out of crystals first, or i won't have the correct crystals).
then once that is done the difference between the two ships will be the hulk has to swap ship to haul, or spend an absurd amount of time doing it itself and for that drawback it should have mined more ore.

the crux of the issue here is that if the hulk can't do that because it's docking up to get reloads or proper crystal types then the mack becomes the king of yield, cargo, and tank. which is the exact reasons for the change now; because the hulk is the king of yield cargo and tank. instead of solving the issue we've just shifted it from 1 ship to another.

people will now mindlessly train for a mackinaw instead of a hulk.

edit; ok not your last post, the one before since you ninja posted before i was finished :P
second edit: i keep getting my ships up mixed.
Dave stark
#390 - 2012-07-28 08:16:43 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Sigras wrote:
you would know that the skiff was no better at it than the hulk


Hmmm . . . i stand corrected, though in my defense that statement was clearly not made simply about mining yield but about the ship as a whole.

Dave stark wrote:
also
if you're mining in a fleet, who cares about tank?


Anyone who doesnt want to be the one first targeted by the rats?


oh no doubt if you're not cherry picking mercoxit then that 16% yield hit is nothing to worry about. however if you are cherry picking, that 16% is quite substantial, and it'll save on crystals.

ecm dones are awesome.
Sigras
Conglomo
#391 - 2012-07-28 08:21:36 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Sigras wrote:
Droxlyn wrote:
Sigras wrote:

What is your definition of "works"


Not taking away something that we could do before.

You realize that by that definition there isnt a ship in the game that "works"

When this game launched in 2003 you could fit armor repairers in the mid slots, my CEO still has a merlin fit that way.

We cant do that any more, so none of the ships in game work . . . oh no, time to go back to WoW because they never nerf anything and just let power creep rule the day . . .


i can understand nerfing things when they're out of line; but is being able to carry a full compliment of crystals really that unbalanced?

well, I think of it more as a role change. The hulk is supposed to rely on other ships to haul its ore away and to bring it more crystals, the mack isnt, its supposed to be more self sufficient than the hulk or skiff.

To that end, I can see buffing the macks cargo bay to 750 m^3 so it can carry a full set of crystals, and fulfill its role as self sufficient

I would also like to see the cargo bay of the skiff nerfed to 250 m^3 so it can carry 10 different sets of crystals half way between the hulk's 5 and the mackinaw's 15.

just my thoughts, but the hulk will actually work great even solo, I imagine my strategy would be to warp to one spot and mine out all of the different types of ore that i have crystals for, then pick up my cans with my hauler (theyre probably almost running out by then anyway), then get different crystals and warp back to the same spot to gather the rocks i missed the first time. Lather rinse repeat!
Dave stark
#392 - 2012-07-28 08:27:38 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Sigras wrote:
Droxlyn wrote:
Sigras wrote:

What is your definition of "works"


Not taking away something that we could do before.

You realize that by that definition there isnt a ship in the game that "works"

When this game launched in 2003 you could fit armor repairers in the mid slots, my CEO still has a merlin fit that way.

We cant do that any more, so none of the ships in game work . . . oh no, time to go back to WoW because they never nerf anything and just let power creep rule the day . . .


i can understand nerfing things when they're out of line; but is being able to carry a full compliment of crystals really that unbalanced?

well, I think of it more as a role change. The hulk is supposed to rely on other ships to haul its ore away and to bring it more crystals, the mack isnt, its supposed to be more self sufficient than the hulk or skiff.

To that end, I can see buffing the macks cargo bay to 750 m^3 so it can carry a full set of crystals, and fulfill its role as self sufficient

I would also like to see the cargo bay of the skiff nerfed to 250 m^3 so it can carry 10 different sets of crystals half way between the hulk's 5 and the mackinaw's 15.

just my thoughts, but the hulk will actually work great even solo, I imagine my strategy would be to warp to one spot and mine out all of the different types of ore that i have crystals for, then pick up my cans with my hauler (theyre probably almost running out by then anyway), then get different crystals and warp back to the same spot to gather the rocks i missed the first time. Lather rinse repeat!


oh i don't disagree that the mack should be more self sufficient. however i simply don't think crystals should come in to that; of course i don't want the hulk to be able to carry millions of crystals. as i've said enough space to pick between a single set of all the crystals, or being able to take a stack of a subset would be nice and gives more choices.

it's a quality of life change rather than any kind of mining buff, to be honest. it'll also stop people feel like they're being stonewalled in to flying a mack since it's slowly creeping in as the new hulk, then again with how poor the mack is vs it's t1 counterpart if it wasn't almost being given such godhood would any one buy it to begin with?
Sigras
Conglomo
#393 - 2012-07-28 08:29:38 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
the only thing i disagree with in regards to your last post is with regards to the hulk vs mackinaw.

my hulk should be able to sit in a belt and mine for as long as a mackinaw (which it can't do as it will run out of crystals first, or i won't have the correct crystals).
then once that is done the difference between the two ships will be the hulk has to swap ship to haul, or spend an absurd amount of time doing it itself and for that drawback it should have mined more ore.

the crux of the issue here is that if the hulk can't do that because it's docking up to get reloads or proper crystal types then the mack becomes the king of yield, cargo, and tank. which is the exact reasons for the change now; because the hulk is the king of yield cargo and tank. instead of solving the issue we've just shifted it from 1 ship to another.

people will now mindlessly train for a mackinaw instead of a hulk.

edit; ok not your last post, the one before since you ninja posted before i was finished :P
second edit: i keep getting my ships up mixed.


See, I would compare the two differently, I would say 5 hulks and 1 hauler vs 6 mackinaws

The 6 hulks jetcan mine and use the hauler to bring them more crystals, and the macks mine into their own ore bay and dock to dump their ore each time and reposition.

Of course neither of these are real world examples as, in 0.0 the cans will have popped before the belt gets mined and in high sec, the cans will have been flipped before you can blink

that being said, I think its just a different mentality. IMHO if you want to min max it should require coordination and concentration between multiple people, and I believe having people haul you crystals is part of that.
Dave stark
#394 - 2012-07-28 08:35:39 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
the only thing i disagree with in regards to your last post is with regards to the hulk vs mackinaw.

my hulk should be able to sit in a belt and mine for as long as a mackinaw (which it can't do as it will run out of crystals first, or i won't have the correct crystals).
then once that is done the difference between the two ships will be the hulk has to swap ship to haul, or spend an absurd amount of time doing it itself and for that drawback it should have mined more ore.

the crux of the issue here is that if the hulk can't do that because it's docking up to get reloads or proper crystal types then the mack becomes the king of yield, cargo, and tank. which is the exact reasons for the change now; because the hulk is the king of yield cargo and tank. instead of solving the issue we've just shifted it from 1 ship to another.

people will now mindlessly train for a mackinaw instead of a hulk.

edit; ok not your last post, the one before since you ninja posted before i was finished :P
second edit: i keep getting my ships up mixed.


See, I would compare the two differently, I would say 5 hulks and 1 hauler vs 6 mackinaws

The 6 hulks jetcan mine and use the hauler to bring them more crystals, and the macks mine into their own ore bay and dock to dump their ore each time and reposition.

Of course neither of these are real world examples as, in 0.0 the cans will have popped before the belt gets mined and in high sec, the cans will have been flipped before you can blink

that being said, I think its just a different mentality. IMHO if you want to min max it should require coordination and concentration between multiple people, and I believe having people haul you crystals is part of that.


jetcans last as long as you can be bothered to cycle them + 2 hours, and i haven't seen a high sec can flipper for quite a while.

the problem with that is it's effectively saying; you can only fly a hulk if you have multiple accounts. i shouldn't have to pay for multiple accounts to make a ship worth flying. [ok logi being the obvious counterpoint, but i'll think of a suitable rebuke for that later] even the boosting ships aren't subject to that. the orca/rorq make superb haulers when they aren't boosting and are being used in a solo situation.
Sigras
Conglomo
#395 - 2012-07-28 08:36:05 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Sigras wrote:
well, I think of it more as a role change. The hulk is supposed to rely on other ships to haul its ore away and to bring it more crystals, the mack isnt, its supposed to be more self sufficient than the hulk or skiff.

To that end, I can see buffing the macks cargo bay to 750 m^3 so it can carry a full set of crystals, and fulfill its role as self sufficient

I would also like to see the cargo bay of the skiff nerfed to 250 m^3 so it can carry 10 different sets of crystals half way between the hulk's 5 and the mackinaw's 15.

just my thoughts, but the hulk will actually work great even solo, I imagine my strategy would be to warp to one spot and mine out all of the different types of ore that i have crystals for, then pick up my cans with my hauler (theyre probably almost running out by then anyway), then get different crystals and warp back to the same spot to gather the rocks i missed the first time. Lather rinse repeat!


oh i don't disagree that the mack should be more self sufficient. however i simply don't think crystals should come in to that; of course i don't want the hulk to be able to carry millions of crystals. as i've said enough space to pick between a single set of all the crystals, or being able to take a stack of a subset would be nice and gives more choices.


Thats where we differ, to me that isnt more choice. Who ever needs more than one set of a crystal. the freaking things last for 6 hours! Youre going to spend more than 6 hours mining the same rock type? not likely unless its king spod in the small belt.

Thats the problem I have with giving the hulk a set of the crystals, nobody in their right mind needs more than one group of each type so IMHO it removes choice from the equation.

Dave stark wrote:
it's a quality of life change rather than any kind of mining buff, to be honest. it'll also stop people feel like they're being stonewalled in to flying a mack since it's slowly creeping in as the new hulk, then again with how poor the mack is vs it's t1 counterpart if it wasn't almost being given such godhood would any one buy it to begin with?

really? you dont think the 10% mining bonus the hulk gets over the mack will make it the ship of choice? IMHO even with the lack of being able to fit full set of crystals, people are still going to be going for the hulk. 10% more of everything is a really big deal.
Sigras
Conglomo
#396 - 2012-07-28 08:43:46 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
jetcans last as long as you can be bothered to cycle them + 2 hours, and i haven't seen a high sec can flipper for quite a while.

the problem with that is it's effectively saying; you can only fly a hulk if you have multiple accounts. i shouldn't have to pay for multiple accounts to make a ship worth flying. [ok logi being the obvious counterpoint, but i'll think of a suitable rebuke for that later] even the boosting ships aren't subject to that. the orca/rorq make superb haulers when they aren't boosting and are being used in a solo situation.

well yeah i know that you can cycle cans, but if we're going for max efficiency . . .

and I guess I still dont get your aversion to having 5 sets of crystals, in high sec, you only run into 4 types of ore at one time anyway IIRC

And as you said before nobody mines in low sec because . . . well yeah . . .

So youre saying the problem is 0.0 and ive seen the belts in 0.0 the rocks are so huge, all you need is one type of crystals and youll be ready for a hauler (ok that might be a slight exaggeration but you know what i mean, 5 types is more than enough)
Dave stark
#397 - 2012-07-28 08:45:57 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Sigras wrote:
well, I think of it more as a role change. The hulk is supposed to rely on other ships to haul its ore away and to bring it more crystals, the mack isnt, its supposed to be more self sufficient than the hulk or skiff.

To that end, I can see buffing the macks cargo bay to 750 m^3 so it can carry a full set of crystals, and fulfill its role as self sufficient

I would also like to see the cargo bay of the skiff nerfed to 250 m^3 so it can carry 10 different sets of crystals half way between the hulk's 5 and the mackinaw's 15.

just my thoughts, but the hulk will actually work great even solo, I imagine my strategy would be to warp to one spot and mine out all of the different types of ore that i have crystals for, then pick up my cans with my hauler (theyre probably almost running out by then anyway), then get different crystals and warp back to the same spot to gather the rocks i missed the first time. Lather rinse repeat!


oh i don't disagree that the mack should be more self sufficient. however i simply don't think crystals should come in to that; of course i don't want the hulk to be able to carry millions of crystals. as i've said enough space to pick between a single set of all the crystals, or being able to take a stack of a subset would be nice and gives more choices.


Thats where we differ, to me that isnt more choice. Who ever needs more than one set of a crystal. the freaking things last for 6 hours! Youre going to spend more than 6 hours mining the same rock type? not likely unless its king spod in the small belt.

Thats the problem I have with giving the hulk a set of the crystals, nobody in their right mind needs more than one group of each type so IMHO it removes choice from the equation.

Dave stark wrote:
it's a quality of life change rather than any kind of mining buff, to be honest. it'll also stop people feel like they're being stonewalled in to flying a mack since it's slowly creeping in as the new hulk, then again with how poor the mack is vs it's t1 counterpart if it wasn't almost being given such godhood would any one buy it to begin with?

really? you dont think the 10% mining bonus the hulk gets over the mack will make it the ship of choice? IMHO even with the lack of being able to fit full set of crystals, people are still going to be going for the hulk. 10% more of everything is a really big deal.


ok i'll go with you there; perhaps not a full set, but not such a limited set either. there are 8 minerals, as such i think a suitable compromise is that the hulk should be able to carry 8 sets of crystals so you can have crystals for each ore that yields the highest of a given mineral. a fair compromise?

well, if you can't carry the crystals then your 10% bonus is simply making up for your lack of t2 strips. although i think we've done this enough now, instead i'd like to share an idea i've had about t2 strips that may be another nice compromise.

make t2 strips have a similar [say 500? or 520?] base yield as t1 strips and reduce the bonus from crystals. this way i'm getting the bonus for things i'm carrying crystals for but i'm not penalised too heavily for things i haven't got crystals for.
Dave stark
#398 - 2012-07-28 08:46:58 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
jetcans last as long as you can be bothered to cycle them + 2 hours, and i haven't seen a high sec can flipper for quite a while.

the problem with that is it's effectively saying; you can only fly a hulk if you have multiple accounts. i shouldn't have to pay for multiple accounts to make a ship worth flying. [ok logi being the obvious counterpoint, but i'll think of a suitable rebuke for that later] even the boosting ships aren't subject to that. the orca/rorq make superb haulers when they aren't boosting and are being used in a solo situation.

well yeah i know that you can cycle cans, but if we're going for max efficiency . . .

and I guess I still dont get your aversion to having 5 sets of crystals, in high sec, you only run into 4 types of ore at one time anyway IIRC

And as you said before nobody mines in low sec because . . . well yeah . . .

So youre saying the problem is 0.0 and ive seen the belts in 0.0 the rocks are so huge, all you need is one type of crystals and youll be ready for a hauler (ok that might be a slight exaggeration but you know what i mean, 5 types is more than enough)


cycling a can doesn't stop you mining :P
yeah high sec only has 4 types of ore, but not every one is a high sec miner :)
Sigras
Conglomo
#399 - 2012-07-28 08:58:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigras
Dave stark wrote:
ok i'll go with you there; perhaps not a full set, but not such a limited set either. there are 8 minerals, as such i think a suitable compromise is that the hulk should be able to carry 8 sets of crystals so you can have crystals for each ore that yields the highest of a given mineral. a fair compromise?

Yeah I think that sounds good.

Edit: maybe 7 because morphite doesnt really count.

Dave stark wrote:
well, if you can't carry the crystals then your 10% bonus is simply making up for your lack of t2 strips. although i think we've done this enough now, instead i'd like to share an idea i've had about t2 strips that may be another nice compromise.

make t2 strips have a similar [say 500? or 520?] base yield as t1 strips and reduce the bonus from crystals. this way i'm getting the bonus for things i'm carrying crystals for but i'm not penalised too heavily for things i haven't got crystals for.


That really would be interesting, so, if it were say 486 that would be a 10% hit when you dont have a crystal vs a strip miner 1, and the crystals would be changed to a 30% boost to keep them basically where they are now.

I really like that idea, it makes it viable to use strip 2s without crystals without nerfing strip 1s too badly

thats a cool idea.
Dave stark
#400 - 2012-07-28 09:05:59 UTC
i could live with 7 i suppose. i mean if they hadn't nerfed the hulk's ore bay to 350 you'd be able to get 7 in the hulk. that'd be fine.
yeah i could also live with 486 on the t2 strips as base that works for me.

from the fact that ccp keep adjusting things we know they're reading, i hope they throw these ideas around in their office after the weekend. i think we could be on to a winner here.