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Rifters: The dethroned King of T1 frigs
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Firia O'Flame
Gunpoint Mercantile Associates
#1 - 2012-07-27 16:16:27 UTC
The Rifter, prior to the the much needed frig balancing in Inferno, was the undesputed king of T1 frigates. (Lord of all frigates goes to the Dramiel.) But after the rebalanced ships came out, the Rifter was left in the dust.

Now, I still get great kills with the Rifter, and it's still awesome. Problem is, when you pit the rifter against the newly rebalanced frigs, it's just decimated. I'd say this was pilot error if it didn't happen EVERY time! The problem as I see it, was that the CCP that did the balancing said, "The Rifter is cool. We can leave that alone." But they didn't weigh what the changes did to the dynamics.

Contrary to what you might think, I'm not pining for the days where my favorite T1 frig is king of the battlefield again. I just recognize that in a fight, it's not even close anymore.

I'll let you folks decide. My word doesn't have and weight alone. So you people discuss.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#2 - 2012-07-27 16:28:57 UTC
Firia O'Flame wrote:
The Rifter, prior to the the much needed frig balancing in Inferno, was the undesputed king of T1 frigates. (Lord of all frigates goes to the Dramiel.) But after the rebalanced ships came out, the Rifter was left in the dust.

Now, I still get great kills with the Rifter, and it's still awesome. Problem is, when you pit the rifter against the newly rebalanced frigs, it's just decimated. I'd say this was pilot error if it didn't happen EVERY time! The problem as I see it, was that the CCP that did the balancing said, "The Rifter is cool. We can leave that alone." But they didn't weigh what the changes did to the dynamics.

Contrary to what you might think, I'm not pining for the days where my favorite T1 frig is king of the battlefield again. I just recognize that in a fight, it's not even close anymore.

I'll let you folks decide. My word doesn't have and weight alone. So you people discuss.



Granted I'm still in the practice arena / kiddy end of the pool, but so far the Rifter depends on fit and opponent from what I have seen now. In a brawl my punisher beats my buddy's Rifter hands down as long as its a short fight (neuts start to hurt over time). But when he uses that arty fit I can't get near em and he can pick at me all day.

Haven't tested all of them yet, but we are noticing a lot of rock-paper-scissors. It's kind of nice.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#3 - 2012-07-27 16:34:39 UTC
I dunno, the Merlin was always an incredibly strong frigate. People just didn't know....

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Dave stark
#4 - 2012-07-27 16:43:16 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
I dunno, the Merlin was always an incredibly strong frigate. People just didn't know....

-Liang


i think people just hid away from it due to the split weapons.
strenif
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-07-27 16:56:05 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
I dunno, the Merlin was always an incredibly strong frigate. People just didn't know....

-Liang


i think people just hid away from it due to the split weapons.


I know I did. Tristan is the same way.
Firia O'Flame
Gunpoint Mercantile Associates
#6 - 2012-07-27 17:30:24 UTC
The merlin is a lot better now that it's high slots are more focused.
Ogopogo Mu
O C C U P Y
#7 - 2012-07-27 17:37:40 UTC
Firia O'Flame wrote:
The merlin is a lot better now that it's high slots are more focused.


Easier to fly, but less interesting and engageable. Sad
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-07-27 17:40:25 UTC
I'm curious how the new incursus stacks up?

What T1 frigs do you judge to be better, overall, in a 1v1 frigat dual?

Merlin?
Punisher?
Any others?

My thoughts were that active tanking still wasn't viable, such that a plate was still preferable.... meaning you lose the falloff bonus for a bonus that isn't used, ie, they took away its falloff bonus (sure, some other stat got buffed, but when the other frigs get buffed too... well who cares)
Sovai Elaaren
KABS Deep Recon Unit
#9 - 2012-07-27 17:48:17 UTC
There was another discussion thread about this recently that had some discussion and possible fits posted.

I've gone roaming a bit with the fit I posted but wasn't able to get any applicable fights. It seems that the key with the rifter now is to use it's speed an range to essentially kite within scram range vs blasters or out-track at close range vs. lasers. It seems like it should be viable but it'll really need to be tested in practice. This is what I'm trying out:

[Rifter, Hellshard]
Small Armor Repairer II
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II

Warp Scrambler II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
1MN Afterburner II

200mm AutoCannon II, Barrage S
200mm AutoCannon II, Barrage S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
200mm AutoCannon II, Barrage S

Small Projectile Ambit Extension I
Small Projectile Ambit Extension I
Small Projectile Burst Aerator I

Fast, a bit of rep, ability to control range and according to EFT, can out-dps the other frigs (assuming brawling fits) at the edge of scram range.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-07-27 17:58:17 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
I'm curious how the new incursus stacks up?


The dualrep incursus is a beast. Big damage and massive tank ... good luck trying to drop it with t1. Even my hawk struggles with good skills and web.
Firia O'Flame
Gunpoint Mercantile Associates
#11 - 2012-07-27 18:57:42 UTC
Sovai Elaaren wrote:


I've gone roaming a bit with the fit I posted but wasn't able to get any applicable fights. It seems that the key with the rifter now is to use it's speed an range to essentially kite within scram range vs blasters or out-track at close range vs. lasers. It seems like it should be viable but it'll really need to be tested in practice. This is what I'm trying out:


I've tried this, and while this technique has a bit of an edge over the merlin (that fight will still take an age, btw), it's totally useless against the dual rep incursus. It seems sound in principle, but it's really doesn't work with the Rifter. It just doesn't have enough DPS to out kite some of these new ships. Even ships designed to be DPS frigs; no dice.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#12 - 2012-07-27 20:55:08 UTC
Rifter is fine, L2P
Cpt Branko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-07-27 21:28:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Cpt Branko
You can't really count on kiting if something can rep your now reduced damage and still hit you. It just won't work out, because you are not wearing down his EHP and he is wearing your down. So you could either try to make some arty fit or try to figure out a way to gank the active tank ship pointblank, although I'm not sure how it would work even with good old Hail S, with the bonuses the Incursus has.

As for arty fits... just learn to love the Thrasher.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#14 - 2012-07-27 23:15:13 UTC
A good merlin/incursus wipes the floor with a rifter.

Its still better than the punisher though?

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#15 - 2012-07-28 00:02:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarnak Wulf
Rifter thread with Dev Comments

They are probably going to change it to something no longer recognizable as the rifter. The Rifter is dead. Long live the Rifter!
Gorn Arming
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-07-28 00:27:53 UTC
The Merlin and Incursus didn't kill the Rifter; the new Slasher did (or rather, will). Right now, the Rifter is still the best tackling frigate, and it's still the frigate we issue en masse to newbies.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#17 - 2012-07-28 01:00:06 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
A good merlin/incursus wipes the floor with a rifter.

Its still better than the punisher though?



See my post above. ;)

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-07-28 01:05:54 UTC
Paikis wrote:
Rifter is fine, L2P


This x1000.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#19 - 2012-07-28 01:07:03 UTC
If nothing else the tormentor caught up on the rifter a lot P
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-07-28 02:06:14 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
If nothing else the tormentor caught up on the rifter a lot P


Now, if only the Executioner could get another high and turret point...
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