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Barge Fairy Tale

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Patrakele
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1361 - 2012-07-27 18:27:24 UTC
Hm. Is it me or you guys have so much in common with WoW forums posters? It's like the tears taste the same and your manginas are making the thinking process for you....
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#1362 - 2012-07-27 18:31:06 UTC
If the Hulk comes out with higher EHP then before the patch you should be happy. I have read the entire 60+ pages and I am sorry to say that I will never get that part of my life back. Yes they need a little boost with number but now just because you wanted max yeild max tank does not mean CCP should pander to you to have both. There have been many EFT fits posted on here and everyone of them has been shot down with well I don't like it. It proves me wrong. You will need to fit some tank on you ship a DCU and a MLU is a fair balance between yield and tank. The only place I see that that Hulk could use some love is with PG 10 more would be enough to make a great many of the past 60 pages irrelevant. Just my opinion. I also think that a solo Cat should not be able to take a Hulk 2 maybe its team work after all. Flame away
Dave Stark
#1363 - 2012-07-27 18:32:44 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
i'm hoping he means it's broken for the fact that in high sec you're able to ruin some one's day; but it should cost you something. as it stands when a catalyst ganks a hulk they can recover the cost of such a cheap ship from the hulk's wreckage and the ganker hasn't paid a thing to wreck the miner's day.

i think people need to also understand the subtle difference of "i will gain from this gank, no matter what. his wreckage is worth more than my ship" rather than "i will gain from this gank, that moron thinks carrying plex in a shuttle is a good idea".
the key difference is the fact that it's only a profitable venture to gank the shuttle because it has a plex, not because it's a shuttle.


I will gain from this Gank only if he doesn't bother to fit a tank.
I will break even from this gank maybe in a .5 system with a special snowflake fleet of 10 guys.
I will lose isk in any other situation. Mine in a 0.7-1.0 system with 2MLUs and a midslot/rig only tank and guess what, anyone who ganks you will lose money.

The only reason it's a usually profitable thing is that Hulks don't bother to fit tanks.


and then it's you mine or you tank and the argument goes around in cicrles for 50 pages and.... lets not go there.

i think hulks should have a certain level of anti-gank as standard (enough to with stand a t1 destroyer) and if you want to be gank resistant to bigger things, then you should be giving things up. many will disagree with me but i don't care i'm not preapred to get in to a 50 page circle chase about it.

the advantage combat ships have over mining ships in terms of fitting tank is ships have 3 things; tank, damage, and utility. three things to go in to 2 slots (mids and lows) damage goes in the lows, utility goes in the middle, and your tank goes in either, so you drop 1 for the tank. mining, on the other hand doesn't quite have that option. once you fit "damage" in the lows you *can't* fit tank in the mid, fitting requirements are too tight. you have to have one or the other where as combat ships get to go with "two of the three".

yeah, an apples and oranges comparison but the difference is actually why the comparison works.... i think.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1364 - 2012-07-27 18:32:52 UTC
Andre Jean Sarpantis wrote:
Mimimimimi......check out on Sisi rigth now, seems CCP has listened to your whinning thread Herr Wilkus......they lowred the stats from the Miningships down again to something more fitting your needs beeing able to easy gank them.

So again the loudest vocal whiner voices from the PvP fraction have won again......Shame on you CCP.



What are the new base stats on them? Cant get on SiSi for a while.
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Doomheim
#1365 - 2012-07-27 18:33:50 UTC
Quote:
i'm hoping he means it's broken for the fact that in high sec you're able to ruin some one's day; but it should cost you something. as it stands when a catalyst ganks a hulk they can recover the cost of such a cheap ship from the hulk's wreckage and the ganker hasn't paid a thing to wreck the miner's day.

i think people need to also understand the subtle difference of "i will gain from this gank, no matter what. his wreckage is worth more than my ship" rather than "i will gain from this gank, that moron thinks carrying plex in a shuttle is a good idea".
the key difference is the fact that it's only a profitable venture to gank the shuttle because it has a plex, not because it's a shuttle.


In which case it would have been broken for multiple years after multiple changes to the system.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#1366 - 2012-07-27 18:34:31 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
i'm hoping he means it's broken for the fact that in high sec you're able to ruin some one's day; but it should cost you something. as it stands when a catalyst ganks a hulk they can recover the cost of such a cheap ship from the hulk's wreckage and the ganker hasn't paid a thing to wreck the miner's day.

i think people need to also understand the subtle difference of "i will gain from this gank, no matter what. his wreckage is worth more than my ship" rather than "i will gain from this gank, that moron thinks carrying plex in a shuttle is a good idea".
the key difference is the fact that it's only a profitable venture to gank the shuttle because it has a plex, not because it's a shuttle.


I will gain from this Gank only if he doesn't bother to fit a tank.
I will break even from this gank maybe in a .5 system with a special snowflake fleet of 10 guys.
I will lose isk in any other situation. Mine in a 0.7-1.0 system with 2MLUs and a midslot/rig only tank and guess what, anyone who ganks you will lose money.

The only reason it's a usually profitable thing is that Hulks don't bother to fit tanks.



See, no, you missed the DEV announcement - they are redefining 'profitable' - just for the ganking profession!

For anyone else on the planet, 'profitable' is defined as 'ending up with more ISK than when you started'.

But for gankers, apparently, 'profitable' is now 'losing less than your victim'. And everything must be rebalanced along that principle.

Because we can buy new ships with tears, right?
Dave Stark
#1367 - 2012-07-27 18:34:58 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Andre Jean Sarpantis wrote:
Mimimimimi......check out on Sisi rigth now, seems CCP has listened to your whinning thread Herr Wilkus......they lowred the stats from the Miningships down again to something more fitting your needs beeing able to easy gank them.

So again the loudest vocal whiner voices from the PvP fraction have won again......Shame on you CCP.



What are the new base stats on them? Cant get on SiSi for a while.


armour, shield and hull hp has changed (don't have hard numbers on that)

and mining barge bonus seems to have gone from 7.5%/level to 5%/level (ship stats shows 7.5 as the bonus, but fitting window is only giving 5%)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1368 - 2012-07-27 18:39:12 UTC
Dave stark wrote:



armour, shield and hull hp has changed (don't have hard numbers on that)

and mining barge bonus seems to have gone from 7.5%/level to 5%/level (ship stats shows 7.5 as the bonus, but fitting window is only giving 5%)


Now thats interesting, wasn't expecting a resist bonus change. Gonna need to get those hp numbers though to figure out what this means.
Ditra Vorthran
Caldari Imports and Exports
#1369 - 2012-07-27 18:40:19 UTC
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:

Does anyone else feel like Soundwave admitting that ganking isn't working right a bit ridiculous.


Like Faction Warfare? Like Bounties?

Just because it's in the game doesn't mean it's working as intended, even after a loooooong time.

"Miners mine so I don't have to." ~Metal Icarus
Suqq Madiq
#1370 - 2012-07-27 18:44:50 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
See, no, you missed the DEV announcement - they are redefining 'profitable' - just for the ganking profession!

For anyone else on the planet, 'profitable' is defined as 'ending up with more ISK than when you started'.

But for gankers, apparently, 'profitable' is now 'losing less than your victim'. And everything must be rebalanced along that principle.

Because we can buy new ships with tears, right?



You can buy more ships just like everybody else; by putting effort into it. You think your brand of "PVP" should pay for itself and then some. You're wrong.
Andre Jean Sarpantis
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1371 - 2012-07-27 18:44:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Andre Jean Sarpantis
baltec1 wrote:
Dave stark wrote:



armour, shield and hull hp has changed (don't have hard numbers on that)

and mining barge bonus seems to have gone from 7.5%/level to 5%/level (ship stats shows 7.5 as the bonus, but fitting window is only giving 5%)


Now thats interesting, wasn't expecting a resist bonus change. Gonna need to get those hp numbers though to figure out what this means.



It significantly decreases the EHP from all Exhumers again to a somewhat closer EHP amount like on liveserver.....approc 4- 6k EHP less then in the early changes shown on Sisi.

p.s. It's a Shame CCP is unable to stand to their first decissions in reagrds to changes and listens seemingly to the loudest whiners, as said a few posts ago, in this Case its again the Whining Loudmouthy Ganker and PvPer F***tard Fraction.
Dave Stark
#1372 - 2012-07-27 18:47:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dave stark wrote:



armour, shield and hull hp has changed (don't have hard numbers on that)

and mining barge bonus seems to have gone from 7.5%/level to 5%/level (ship stats shows 7.5 as the bonus, but fitting window is only giving 5%)


Now thats interesting, wasn't expecting a resist bonus change. Gonna need to get those hp numbers though to figure out what this means.


test server values for the hulk
shield: 2530
armour: 2160
hull: 2300

live
shield: 1519
armour: 1013
hull: 2531

(don't forget to add skills like mechanic etc to those when working out your ehps etc)
sorry i don't have yesterdays sisi stats to compare with.
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Doomheim
#1373 - 2012-07-27 18:49:17 UTC
Ditra Vorthran wrote:
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:

Does anyone else feel like Soundwave admitting that ganking isn't working right a bit ridiculous.


Like Faction Warfare? Like Bounties?

Just because it's in the game doesn't mean it's working as intended, even after a loooooong time.


Right. That's terrible and drives consumers away. That's my point. A stiff learning curve with Darwinism is acceptable. When you couple that with the apparent problem at hand, and its detrimental to the game.
Pipa Porto
#1374 - 2012-07-27 18:55:08 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
See, no, you missed the DEV announcement - they are redefining 'profitable' - just for the ganking profession!

For anyone else on the planet, 'profitable' is defined as 'ending up with more ISK than when you started'.

But for gankers, apparently, 'profitable' is now 'losing less than your victim'. And everything must be rebalanced along that principle.

Because we can buy new ships with tears, right?



You can buy more ships just like everybody else; by putting effort into it. You think your brand of "PVP" should pay for itself and then some. You're wrong.


The only reason it can be profitable is that Miners refuse to tank their ships.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1375 - 2012-07-27 18:55:25 UTC
Dave stark wrote:


test server values for the hulk
shield: 2530
armour: 2160
hull: 2300

live
shield: 1519
armour: 1013
hull: 2531

(don't forget to add skills like mechanic etc to those when working out your ehps etc)
sorry i don't have yesterdays sisi stats to compare with.


This might be profitable to gank, I'll need to test this. I assume the CPU and Powergrid havent been changed?
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1376 - 2012-07-27 18:56:23 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
and then it's you mine or you tank


I find it unsurprising that you're unaware that you can actually mine AND tank just fine the ways things are now.

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1377 - 2012-07-27 18:57:00 UTC
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:


I won't reach 1 isk, but certainly 3 isk.


Ah, I thought I read 1 ISK PU in the quoted text. Has to be bad sight of mine.


Am I forced to agree with the bad predictions of a random dude on the EVE-o forums?


Feel free to link *1* post with a bad prediction.



Mallak Azaria wrote:
Quote:

He will unfortunately suffer the most in the end though. He has put in effort to survive & will be one of the few that don't deserve the inevitable hit to their wallets when veld goes back to 1 isk PU.


Inevitable =/= 6 months. Nice try.


Bolded the part your blinds seem to hide.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Suqq Madiq
#1378 - 2012-07-27 18:57:33 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
The only reason it can be profitable is that Miners refuse to tank their ships.


Not true. Proven many times over. 10 Catalysts can gank a Hulk and still make a profit, but gankers are doing it with far fewer. But even if it was true, too bad. That's their choice. Profitability in ganking is your delusion.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#1379 - 2012-07-27 18:58:39 UTC
Mining barge stats appear to be altered again on SISI.
Dave Stark
#1380 - 2012-07-27 18:59:58 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dave stark wrote:


test server values for the hulk
shield: 2530
armour: 2160
hull: 2300

live
shield: 1519
armour: 1013
hull: 2531

(don't forget to add skills like mechanic etc to those when working out your ehps etc)
sorry i don't have yesterdays sisi stats to compare with.


This might be profitable to gank, I'll need to test this. I assume the CPU and Powergrid havent been changed?


sisi cpu/pg
300/35

live cpu/pg
300/35

so yeah, unchanged from live. also that's without skills again so add your electronics and engineering skills etc.