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Initial mining barge changes are on the test server
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Dave Stark
#221 - 2012-07-27 16:35:24 UTC
Denidil wrote:
actually resistances are based on mining barge, not exhumers.. so it is really really wrong. i bugreported


if it's mining barge level 5*1.05 is 1.25... right?
so it's gone from 7.5% per barge level, to 5%
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#222 - 2012-07-27 16:36:29 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Denidil wrote:
actually resistances are based on mining barge, not exhumers.. so it is really really wrong. i bugreported


if it's mining barge level 5*1.05 is 1.25... right?
so it's gone from 7.5% per barge level, to 5%


yeah i think they're messed it up based on the dump.. dump says it should be 7.5/level

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Dave Stark
#223 - 2012-07-27 16:37:33 UTC
Denidil wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Denidil wrote:
actually resistances are based on mining barge, not exhumers.. so it is really really wrong. i bugreported


if it's mining barge level 5*1.05 is 1.25... right?
so it's gone from 7.5% per barge level, to 5%


yeah i think they're messed it up based on the dump.. dump says it should be 7.5/level


it's just come to my attention from the other thread that the cov has a 500m3 cargo bay still, which means either the covetor or the hulk's cargo bay is "wrong" as they're not consistent.

i think there are a few things that need correcting in today's sisi update.
Ditra Vorthran
Caldari Imports and Exports
#224 - 2012-07-27 17:05:31 UTC
Don't have any of the quick maths with my (at work ftl -_-), but I did some testing yesterday with Ice mining.

Mack:
2 x Ice harvesters II

1 EM Ward Amplifier (passive tank, can't remember the right name)

3 x Ice Harvester Laser Upgrades

1 x Medium Overclocking Rig I
1 x Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

Assuming max Rorqual skills, max Exhumer/Barge, and Mining Foreman Mindlink Bonus, I was getting a cycle time of 103 (and change) seconds and an EHP of I think 12k.

With a 31k ore bay, you'd fill up every 12+ minutes.

Haven't tested it in High Sec and an Orca.

Still waiting for those Ice Harvester rigs to show up.

"Miners mine so I don't have to." ~Metal Icarus
Javajunky
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#225 - 2012-07-27 17:16:49 UTC
Denidil wrote:
new batch of changes.. analyzing.

http://pastebin.com/fnuau8HH



skill requirements to fly updated for all ships

Procurer: 3 more midslots (4 total now), 25 drone capacity and bandwidth

Retriever: base orehold 22500, +5% per barge level

Hulk: Base Resit change, suspect a typo! 100/50/60/80 (from 62.5/35/37.5/50) - resist bonus change from 3.0% to 7.5%/level

Mackinaw: Same resists as Hulk now

Skiff: 50m3/50mbit drone, same resists as other exhumers and same resist bonus

rigging costs ice and mercoxit role rigs increased to 250


looks like i need to go update my pyfa again and refigure all the tanking numbers.



it doesn't look like this dump has actually gone live yet. (retriver still has 1 mid) .. however something has gone live

T1 laser crystals: 15m3
T2 laser crystals: 25m3




Seriously the Hulk Bay was further reduced in size? Can you double check that?

500 to 350 m3 - what's up with this sh|t


What's the big f'ing problem with us having the ability to carry a full set of crystals? If we are going down to 25m3 each, ok then the Cargo needs to be 975 m3.
Dave Stark
#226 - 2012-07-27 17:24:03 UTC
Javajunky wrote:
Denidil wrote:
new batch of changes.. analyzing.

http://pastebin.com/fnuau8HH



skill requirements to fly updated for all ships

Procurer: 3 more midslots (4 total now), 25 drone capacity and bandwidth

Retriever: base orehold 22500, +5% per barge level

Hulk: Base Resit change, suspect a typo! 100/50/60/80 (from 62.5/35/37.5/50) - resist bonus change from 3.0% to 7.5%/level

Mackinaw: Same resists as Hulk now

Skiff: 50m3/50mbit drone, same resists as other exhumers and same resist bonus

rigging costs ice and mercoxit role rigs increased to 250


looks like i need to go update my pyfa again and refigure all the tanking numbers.



it doesn't look like this dump has actually gone live yet. (retriver still has 1 mid) .. however something has gone live

T1 laser crystals: 15m3
T2 laser crystals: 25m3




Seriously the Hulk Bay was further reduced in size? Can you double check that?

500 to 350 m3 - what's up with this sh|t


What's the big f'ing problem with us having the ability to carry a full set of crystals? If we are going down to 25m3 each, ok then the Cargo needs to be 975 m3.


yes it has changed, but the covetor's hasn't, meaning it's probably an accidental change, or the covetor is in for a nice neutering too.

however with the crystals being 25m3 not 50m3, we've "gained" space even with the cargo reduction.
Haffsol
#227 - 2012-07-27 17:39:59 UTC
wtf! the hulk had too much love for a couple of days in sisi, better to nerf it already!
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#228 - 2012-07-27 18:04:07 UTC
Of course, with the hulk being a fleet ship, you could store the spare crystals in the support ship... Blink

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Dave Stark
#229 - 2012-07-27 18:08:01 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Of course, with the hulk being a fleet ship, you could store the spare crystals in the support ship... Blink


except if you're not in the support ship's corp you can't access it's corp hangars; nor is this useful if it's providing off-grid boosts due to the dangerous nature of the area you're mining in.

even worse if the support ship is some one's alt and they're focusing on managing other accounts so they can't see your constant nagging for crystal reloads.
Haffsol
#230 - 2012-07-27 18:13:50 UTC
I was talking about the ehp, the cargobay has been buffed in this last patch
Infinite Force
#231 - 2012-07-27 18:14:56 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Of course, with the hulk being a fleet ship, you could store the spare crystals in the support ship... Blink

The only people I see advocating this response seem to be those that have no experience in large or dangerous ops.

If you are solo mining in HS, then yes, this is appropriate.

In Low / Null / WH space, you need the storage in the Mining ship. Period. The haulers are going to be to concerned with pickups and get outs to worry about a crystal drop.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
Zetaomega333
High Flyers
#232 - 2012-07-27 18:19:25 UTC
Infinite Force wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Of course, with the hulk being a fleet ship, you could store the spare crystals in the support ship... Blink

The only people I see advocating this response seem to be those that have no experience in large or dangerous ops.

If you are solo mining in HS, then yes, this is appropriate.

In Low / Null / WH space, you need the storage in the Mining ship. Period. The haulers are going to be to concerned with pickups and get outs to worry about a crystal drop.



Second this, Empire bears seem to be under the illusion that nullsec and wh miners will ONLY use the hulk when in a fleet, when in fact we use hulks to solo mine and will keep doing it.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#233 - 2012-07-27 18:21:04 UTC
I'm just under the impression that one of the goals of the changes is to make the Hulk a fleet ops ship, rather than a solo ship. Mostly because that's been explicitly stated.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Dave Stark
#234 - 2012-07-27 18:23:20 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
I'm just under the impression that one of the goals of the changes is to make the Hulk a fleet ops ship, rather than a solo ship. Mostly because that's been explicitly stated.


there's a difference between "works best in fleets" and "only works in fleets".
Pipa Porto
#235 - 2012-07-27 18:33:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Zetaomega333 wrote:
Second this, Empire bears seem to be under the illusion that nullsec and wh miners will ONLY use the hulk when in a fleet, when in fact we use hulks to solo mine and will keep doing it.


Why? The Mackinaw will probably yield more once you take dropoffs into account.

37k m3 vs 7500 (or Jetcans and switching ships)

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Dave Stark
#236 - 2012-07-27 18:37:12 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Zetaomega333 wrote:
Second this, Empire bears seem to be under the illusion that nullsec and wh miners will ONLY use the hulk when in a fleet, when in fact we use hulks to solo mine and will keep doing it.


Why? The Mackinaw will probably yield more once you take dropoffs into account.

37k m3 vs 7500 (or Jetcans and switching ships)


31k vs 7500.
Pipa Porto
#237 - 2012-07-27 18:43:28 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Zetaomega333 wrote:
Second this, Empire bears seem to be under the illusion that nullsec and wh miners will ONLY use the hulk when in a fleet, when in fact we use hulks to solo mine and will keep doing it.


Why? The Mackinaw will probably yield more once you take dropoffs into account.

37k m3 vs 7500 (or Jetcans and switching ships)


31k vs 7500.


They dropped it down? Or did I screw up in reading basic numbers (entirely possible).

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Dave Stark
#238 - 2012-07-27 18:49:46 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Zetaomega333 wrote:
Second this, Empire bears seem to be under the illusion that nullsec and wh miners will ONLY use the hulk when in a fleet, when in fact we use hulks to solo mine and will keep doing it.


Why? The Mackinaw will probably yield more once you take dropoffs into account.

37k m3 vs 7500 (or Jetcans and switching ships)


31k vs 7500.


They dropped it down? Or did I screw up in reading basic numbers (entirely possible).


uhm, yesterday the mining barge bonus dropped from 10% cargo to 5% cargo and the ret got an ore hold buff of 2.5k.
ret gets 28k, mack gets 31k (rounded) unless you need the tank the mackinaw is very unappealing right now in comparison to it's little brother.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#239 - 2012-07-27 18:54:23 UTC
yeah they reduced the mac hold.. so lame

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Pipa Porto
#240 - 2012-07-27 18:59:43 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

They dropped it down? Or did I screw up in reading basic numbers (entirely possible).


uhm, yesterday the mining barge bonus dropped from 10% cargo to 5% cargo and the ret got an ore hold buff of 2.5k.
ret gets 28k, mack gets 31k (rounded) unless you need the tank the mackinaw is very unappealing right now in comparison to it's little brother.


... The Mack's Ore bay is like the only change they got right. There is literally no problem with the cavernous bay on a ship designed to have a cavernous bay.

The problem is that it's massive tank takes away from the Skiff's role, and the Skiff's big Ore bay takes away from the Mack's role.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto