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New dev blog: Tech is fine l2p

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Hammer Legion Member
Doomheim
#841 - 2012-07-27 14:01:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Hammer Legion Member
Lord Zim wrote:

You just proved that you have absolutely no clue about how the CFC is organized, or you at least have a huge misunderstanding in how the NC was organized.


yea please make a mystery out of the easiest to get into coalition out there...lol.

CCP Fozzie wrote:

I'm not aiming for 80k. I've told the CSM the range I'm aiming for but I won't be sharing it with the general public.


sorry if thats off-topic, but doesnt give that kind of information CSM Members (and their friends, eventually) an advantage over other players in order of speculation etc?

regards, HML
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#842 - 2012-07-27 14:02:40 UTC
Hammer Legion Member wrote:
sorry if thats off-topic, but doesnt give that kind of information CSM Members (and their friends, eventually) an advantage over other players in order of speculation etc?

You need a TLA: NDA.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Hammer Legion Member
Doomheim
#843 - 2012-07-27 14:04:56 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Hammer Legion Member wrote:
sorry if thats off-topic, but doesnt give that kind of information CSM Members (and their friends, eventually) an advantage over other players in order of speculation etc?

You need a TLA: NDA.


fair enough

regards, HML
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#844 - 2012-07-27 14:11:28 UTC  |  Edited by: corestwo
For the record, if we run Querns' numbers at 15:1 instead of their current 20:1, we get Tech at 35k. If we follow the idea that alchemy will have a profit margin at 200m/mo, we get 63k tech; at 100m/mo that's 49k. Again, conservative on the ice prices and all that.

Depending on what you're aiming for, 15:1 might be a better sweet spot.

e: "To put my credentials on the table" (since we all seem to be doing it) I work with Querns & Weaselior & Aryth. You might recognize me from such things as Faction Warfare Forex. Blink

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#845 - 2012-07-27 14:25:18 UTC
Now you're just helicopterdicking all over the forums.
Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#846 - 2012-07-27 14:27:29 UTC
Hammer Legion Member wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:

You just proved that you have absolutely no clue about how the CFC is organized, or you at least have a huge misunderstanding in how the NC was organized.


yea please make a mystery out of the easiest to get into coalition out there...lol.

CCP Fozzie wrote:

I'm not aiming for 80k. I've told the CSM the range I'm aiming for but I won't be sharing it with the general public.


sorry if thats off-topic, but doesnt give that kind of information CSM Members (and their friends, eventually) an advantage over other players in order of speculation etc?


If it's so easy to get in, why are you still a NPC alt?
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#847 - 2012-07-27 14:37:42 UTC
Hammer Legion Member wrote:

sorry if thats off-topic, but doesnt give that kind of information CSM Members (and their friends, eventually) an advantage over other players in order of speculation etc?

The sort of speculation you can do with this is really, really obvious to anyone who is paying attention. Someone on the CSM tried that in the leadup to Dominion, and got booted off because "hmm they just bought scads of neodymium I WONDER IF THEY'RE MISUSING THEIR ACCESS" (at the time it seemed more likely that neo would be the bottleneck since you actually had to run the numbers carefully to realize it was tech).
Wibla
Tactical Narcotics Team
#848 - 2012-07-27 14:44:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Wibla
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Powers Sa wrote:

So you're shooting for 80k per unit prices?


One of the goals up until the beginning of phase two is for Tech to continue being the best moon in the game by a large margin.

You're missing the mark on this goal by about a mile.

Not because of alchemy alone, but because of the double whammy of changing up alchemy and effectively dumpstering isotope prices as legions of botters and afk miners hit the ice belts in their macks and skiffs.

I guess the saying that CCP doesn't know their own game just rings truer for every day that passes.

Edit: Yes, I dug up an old quote, it's relevant for this page, deal wiz it.

Edit 2: **** it, I'm not done shitposting.

What you're doing to the EVE economy with these changes - after months of chaos already - is basically screwing it completely.

By dumpstering the value of tech, you devaluate a very big portion of the T2 market

By changing mining barges and exhumers, you are in effect dumpstering low-end ores and ice, cutting the prices of everything T1 and T2, also pos fuel costs.

Hello massive deflation.

I dare you to ask your economist if this is good or bad for the game.

A lot of SoCo retards are trying to insinuate that we're posting so furiously about this because this "hurts the OTEC" so bad.

Let me educate you on one point:

We're sitting on a MASSIVE pile of isk.

These changes doesnt hurt us near as much as it hurts the rest of EVE and its economy

There's been a loose prediction that the price of plex will go up (even more) as a result of this.

Combined with a general deflation on gear and ships, meaning that producers will have less income, miners will make less per hour. This will impact a lot of players, and subs will be lost.
Powers Sa
#849 - 2012-07-27 15:02:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Powers Sa
Grath Telkin wrote:
Ione Hawke wrote:


Ok, you did some nice selective quoting there. Certainly you won't call Nulli/BL skirmishing and grabbing a tech from Goons a credible threat to your monopoly, do you? I merely argued that tech/otec prevents conflict *at this moment*.


Way to move your goal posts, now it needs to be a credible threat?


No other group in eve has the organizational skills that the CFC has, so there is no such thing as a credible threat to a group that can mobilize 3 full fleets of people at the drop of a hat. Whats next, nerf the size of alliance and the length of your standings list?

That wasn't selective quoting, that was addressing the points, people said nobody attacks the tech, or even takes the tech, which is an outright lie, the moons are under a fairly constant attack from one group or another.

You should come out and say what you really want, which is a nerf to the organizational skills of the OTEC group, because thats what you keep losing to.

Ganthrithor wrote:
Sigras wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
with isotopes at 600 (which is a very conservatively high number) tech will be at 40k within a month

Cry me a river, now you only make 2.5 billion isk a month times 100 OTECH moons WAH WAH WAH!


Yes I agree let's rebalance the game everytime someone does something that inconveniences you. OH WAIT that's what CCP has been busy doing.

...

Also, there's no H in OTEC. The more you know!


not empty quoting

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
Ruiryu
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#850 - 2012-07-27 15:12:19 UTC
People are still only fixated on the tech here is funny. I see people whining that Neo is going to become the new cash cow to milk. Hate to break it to you but that will just make the neo alchemy reactions worth doing as well with these changes and those unrefined reactions are already on TQ. This change is bringing a global balance it is adding value to a once useless game feature.

With EVEs growing population the demand on Tech2 goods is higher the demand is going to be higher, this ends up pushing the ceiling on getting tech2 more expensive, to bring tech2 back in line to being affordable and not exclusive these types of cartels can't be happening and there needs to be alternatives to system (alchemy, space magic).
Hammer Legion Member
Doomheim
#851 - 2012-07-27 15:12:51 UTC
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:


If it's so easy to get in, why are you still a NPC alt?


this name is awesome if you havent noticed, and It no matter what I do this char will ever stay an alt.

regards, HML
Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#852 - 2012-07-27 15:14:25 UTC
Nerf intelligence.

Oh, and it is true that T1 and T2 production are about to go full dumb for a few months. Dump anything that contains minerals, technetium or isotopes. It will all hilariously crash.
Tolmar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#853 - 2012-07-27 15:14:43 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Wocka Wocka!

Remember that if you like this change you should hit the "like" button on this post. I need to know if this is the kind of work the community is looking for. ;)

:Update 24/7:

After evaluating the market reactions and the estimates from experienced players we now feel comfortable accelerating our planned implementation these reactions. We're going to have them start at 10/1 ratios and re-evaluate from there.

New versions of the reactions are:

- 100 Titanium + 100 Vanadium -> 1 Unrefined Vanadium Hafnite -> 20 Vanadium Hafnite +  90 Vanadium
- 100 Cobalt + 100 Platinum -> 1 Unrefined Platinum Technite -> 20 Platinum Technite + 90 Platinum
- 100 Scandium + 100 Chromium -> 1 Unrefined Solerium -> 20 Solerium + 90 Chromium
- 100 Scandium + 100 Cadmium -> 1 Unrefined Caesarium Cadmide -> 20 Caesarium Cadmide + 90 Cadmium

- 100 Evaporite Deposits + 100 Atmospheric Gases -> 1 Unrefined Hexite -> 20 Hexite

- 100 Atmospheric Gases + 100 Tungsten -> 1 Unrefined Rolled Tungsten Alloy -> 20 Rolled Tungsten Alloy + 90 Tungsten 
- 100 Evaporite Deposits + 100 Titanium -> 1 Unrefined Titanium Chromide -> 20 Titanium Chromide + 90 Titanium
- 100 Hydrocarbons + 100 Scandium -> 1 Unrefined Fernite Alloy-> 20 Fernite Alloy + 90 Scandium
- 100 Silicates + 100 Cobalt -> 1 Unrefined Crystallite Alloy -> 20 Crystallite Alloy + 90 Cobalt


These Values make a lot more sense making people actually able to compete with market prices.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#854 - 2012-07-27 15:18:39 UTC  |  Edited by: corestwo
Ruiryu wrote:
People are still only fixated on the tech here is funny. I see people whining that Neo is going to become the new cash cow to milk. Hate to break it to you but that will just make the neo alchemy reactions worth doing as well with these changes and those unrefined reactions are already on TQ. This change is bringing a global balance it is adding value to a once useless game feature.

With EVEs growing population the demand on Tech2 goods is higher the demand is going to be higher, this ends up pushing the ceiling on getting tech2 more expensive, to bring tech2 back in line to being affordable and not exclusive these types of cartels can't be happening and there needs to be alternatives to system (alchemy, space magic).

Fluxed Cndensates is a 35% loss to alchemize right now, I'd be astonished if neo rises that much.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Hammer Legion Member
Doomheim
#855 - 2012-07-27 15:18:43 UTC
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
Nerf intelligence.

Oh, and it is true that T1 and T2 production are about to go full dumb for a few months. Dump anything that contains minerals, technetium or isotopes. It will all hilariously crash.


your free to rq over it, I will maintain your stuff in the meanwhile

regards, HML
Wibla
Tactical Narcotics Team
#856 - 2012-07-27 15:18:57 UTC
Tolmar wrote:


These Values make a lot more sense making people actually able to compete with market prices.


Reset FCON? Pirate
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#857 - 2012-07-27 15:20:24 UTC
kick fcon reset btls

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#858 - 2012-07-27 15:22:44 UTC
Hammer Legion Member wrote:
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
Nerf intelligence.

Oh, and it is true that T1 and T2 production are about to go full dumb for a few months. Dump anything that contains minerals, technetium or isotopes. It will all hilariously crash.


your free to rq over it, I will maintain your stuff in the meanwhile



Feel free to lose your shirt, I already dumped 2 bil in fuel blocks yesterday at 19k.
Blawrf McTaggart
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#859 - 2012-07-27 15:25:10 UTC
Tolmar wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Wocka Wocka!

Remember that if you like this change you should hit the "like" button on this post. I need to know if this is the kind of work the community is looking for. ;)

:Update 24/7:

After evaluating the market reactions and the estimates from experienced players we now feel comfortable accelerating our planned implementation these reactions. We're going to have them start at 10/1 ratios and re-evaluate from there.

New versions of the reactions are:

- 100 Titanium + 100 Vanadium -> 1 Unrefined Vanadium Hafnite -> 20 Vanadium Hafnite +  90 Vanadium
- 100 Cobalt + 100 Platinum -> 1 Unrefined Platinum Technite -> 20 Platinum Technite + 90 Platinum
- 100 Scandium + 100 Chromium -> 1 Unrefined Solerium -> 20 Solerium + 90 Chromium
- 100 Scandium + 100 Cadmium -> 1 Unrefined Caesarium Cadmide -> 20 Caesarium Cadmide + 90 Cadmium

- 100 Evaporite Deposits + 100 Atmospheric Gases -> 1 Unrefined Hexite -> 20 Hexite

- 100 Atmospheric Gases + 100 Tungsten -> 1 Unrefined Rolled Tungsten Alloy -> 20 Rolled Tungsten Alloy + 90 Tungsten 
- 100 Evaporite Deposits + 100 Titanium -> 1 Unrefined Titanium Chromide -> 20 Titanium Chromide + 90 Titanium
- 100 Hydrocarbons + 100 Scandium -> 1 Unrefined Fernite Alloy-> 20 Fernite Alloy + 90 Scandium
- 100 Silicates + 100 Cobalt -> 1 Unrefined Crystallite Alloy -> 20 Crystallite Alloy + 90 Cobalt


These Values make a lot more sense making people actually able to compete with market prices.


reset fcon
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#860 - 2012-07-27 16:19:46 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
I took a moment to review the actual math behind plat tech alchemy, and I'm posting my findings below.

:siren: MATH TIME :siren:


Your assumptions are:

POS Fuel ~ 11k ISK
Cobalt ~ 0 ISK
Platinum ~ 4k ISK

But you left out, "nothing more profitable to do with that POS."

The cost of Cobalt only becomes 0 ISK when the reaction is taking place in the POS where the cobalt is being harvested, at which point the cost of the Cobalt becomes the fuel cost of running the moon harvester. You're obviously not using that POS for anything else in the meantime, since you have a harvester, reactor, a coupling and a silo hanging around.

If Cobalt really is worth 0, why aren't you harvesting the other moon material that the moon offers instead?

Perhaps your POS monkeys have nothing better to do with their time than earn a few thousand ISK/hr?


hi

my price model implies the use of a gallente medium tower

with 2 silos, a moon harvester, and a simple reactor, you have 200 cpu left over which is not enough for another moon miner or another silo

large towers don't work either unless you buy cobalt, because even if a moon is a double cobalt moon, you can only run one cobalt harvester due to poses being poorly coded

moon minerals and reactions are literally the only profitable thing to do on a tower in nullsec

research is stupid to do in 0.0 because you can do it in highsec at no opportunity cost

production is also stupid to do in 0.0 because you have to JF in all the minerals and do three times as much hauling to do a tenth of the production that you can do in a single station in highsec

not to mention that production ANYWHERE in eve is going to be a very poor idea post 8/8

with lowend minerals dropping all the time, anything you build on Monday is going to sell for less than what you paid for the minerals on Friday

you'd have to be a moron to make anything for the next month or so