Ships & Modules

[quote=Liang Nuren.

If you're interested in solo PVP, why don't you swing by Amamake? :)

-Liang[/quote]

I actually did just that and got jumped by Liang and a couple more. Guess one needs to ask for 1v1 but being in amamake that's not worth much :-)

Not complaining at all, just saying that amamake might not be the best place for soloing. But will come have a look again

Cheers

That's a really neat trick considering I was eating Ethiopian food at lunch while you were allegedly jumped by me and more. But yes, if you don't ask for a 1v1 there's no reasonable reason to believe either party is looking for it. At any rate, I've never heard of Heretics not honoring an agreed upon 1v1. Certainly not "at night" (US TZ).

-Liang

In EU TZ/"mornings" that's definitely a no-go route. SeBo'd Legions + Orca support is a ***** to get even a frig through. At night it isn't so bad.

-Liang

Too much of a wall of text cos of people arguing, so this may have been said by someone better looking than myself, if that is possible.

Apologies cos I stopped reading midway through page 1.

The op does have a point it could be argued that as no pirate faction actually deploys drones habitually (except spider drones in some missions/rogue drones themselves), that the rattlesnake/gila drone damage bonus does not in fact truly represent the traits of that faction (it is after all a guristas ship)

Would it not be more reflective of the guristas combat style to give these 2 ships missile or even (and this will upset people but I have to say it) ECM. By the way I would then argue Angel ships should have target painting/web bonuses, Sansha ships tracking disruption bonuses and Serpentis ships damp bonuses. Which would balance the fact that the Blood Raider BS does have a nos/neut bonus.

I am not really trying to debate turrets vs missiles as a general concern just asking whether people think a rattlesnake really does reflect a guristas ship?

Double Post

So you're complaining about a change to the Dramiel that happened three years ago and solidly put the Dram on top of the forum whine nerf list for most of the interceding time? That's just... I don't even know.

Look, you clearly want a missile-based pirate frigate. It's actually not a bad idea. I'd recommend you completely revamp your argument as to why one would be good, lay out how it fits into the current EVE environment, and post the idea in Features and Ideas. If you'd like it to get noticed, stay away from any arguments that involve "because I want one" either implicitly or explicitly. And certainly don't reference the fact that the Dramiel used to have missile slots or whine about having to train guns to fly an uber ship.

Oh, and has an historical lark, this is fun to re-read just to see how many people at the time were proclaiming the ruination of the Machariel.

I would like to see your 500dps frigate fit plz

I could do with a laugh

Fair point. But let's be complete in our examples. The Drake and the Tengu enjoy kill number like that for a lot reasons, none of which have to do with the fact that they are missile boats. Between the sheet number of Caldari players (a **** ton) and the excellence of those particular designed (perhaps a touch OP), the Tengu and Drake are simply popular designs, used in pretty much all areas of the game. From WH to Hi Sec to gangs and huge blobs/fleets, those hulls are everywhere.

The advantages and disadvantages of missiles are pretty well accepted. Excellent range and no straight misses are the strengths. Time to target and damage application on hit are the weaknesses.

That said, the point of the thread was simply that there is not a pirate faction missile boat with the same kinds of enormous damage bonuses that turret based pirate vessels have. This is an indisputable statement.

Golem is not a good example because all Marauders have similar bonuses such that less weapon hardpoints = more damage to make room for tractor/salvager. That's the kit of the Marauder class, not a missile- or turret-centric thing.

Navy faction ships are all generally designed the same - especially at the BS level. Smaller bonsues to damage and/or ROF such that damage is greater than the stock T1 version of said ships, but nowhere near the pure damage bonuses on pirate vessels.

That said, I do not think missiles are in bad shape. They have their value in both PvE and PvP. People who focus on missile training are in no way disadvantaged in any area of the game (except maybe incursions).

In sum, OP's apparent QQ about missiles is not well taken.

What the op doesn't seem to understand is that these ships with "HUGE" damage bonuses all have very few actual weapons. The picture changes quite a bit when you look not at the damage bonus, but the effective number of weapons created by that bonus. A ship with a 100% damage bonus and two weapons is still behind a ship with a 25% bonus and four weapons, in terms of damage output.

Damn right. I have a Succubus that's been in a hanger since Dominion came out. I'd quite like a reason to use it again.