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Barge Fairy Tale

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Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#921 - 2012-07-27 01:15:15 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Step 13: Crimewatch (major nerf to hauler/freighter ganking and ninjas)

I can see ninjas(thieves) getting a nerf, but how are hauler gankers affected?


Gank a hauler on a busy trade network. It leaves a yellow wreck, flagged to the now dead owner.
Scoop the wreck now, you are flagged to the previous owner. Vultures can steal the wreck, but it goes with the territory.

Post-Crimewatch:
Try to scoop the wreck, you get attacked by everyone, vultures and passerby's alike.

Profits are already far from certain due to failed gank attempts, random loot drops, loss of insurance - and vultures.
Now factor in free aggro for everyone....

Now imagine trying to loot a dead freighter.
Drone 16
Holy Horde
#922 - 2012-07-27 01:19:43 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Step 13: Crimewatch (major nerf to hauler/freighter ganking and ninjas)

I can see ninjas(thieves) getting a nerf, but how are hauler gankers affected?


Gank a hauler on a busy trade network. It leaves a yellow wreck, flagged to the now dead owner.
Scoop the wreck now, you are flagged to the previous owner. Vultures can steal the wreck, but it goes with the territory.

Post-Crimewatch:
Try to scoop the wreck, you get attacked by everyone, vultures and passerby's alike.

Profits are already far from certain due to failed gank attempts, random loot drops, loss of insurance - and vultures.
Now factor in free aggro for everyone....

Now imagine trying to loot a dead freighter.



Gank stopped by passerby:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMZbW2Q92MM

It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits
Herr Hammer Draken
#923 - 2012-07-27 01:22:34 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Evei Shard wrote:
Ludi Burek wrote:
One can only hope that this is a precursor to ice being removed from high sec Smile


You don't understand, do you? This is the last update CCP will *evar!* make to Eve! Game over man! Game over!!!
/sarc

Glad to see someone else gets it in regards to this being a change that is a step along a path, not the final destination.



Step 1: Halve Concord Response time, triple the sec status penalty. (ganker nerf)

Step 2: Create the Noctis - destroying ninja income by crashing the value of salvage.

Step 3: Kill the LVL 4 Loot, while leaving 'unstealable' bounties untouched. (ninja nerf)

Step 4: Two stealth nerfs of the Orca's abilities, specifically so ninjas cannot benefit from them. (ninja nerf)

Step 5: End enforcement of alliance hopping exploits. (merc nerf)

Step 6: Remove insurance, but only for gankers, while leaving it in place for self-destruction. (ganker nerf)

Step 7: Screw up RR and aggression flags, then provide helpful popups so nobody can hurt an Incursion bear. (Skunkworks)

Step 8: Dramatically reduce the time and effort it takes to set-up or break-down a POS. (merc nerf)

Step 9: Buff Concord by preventing pirates from boarding or bailing out of ships while GCC'd. (Smodab Ongalot nerf)

Step 10: Buff Concord again, by making them appear instantly to prevent warping while GCC'd. (Herr Wilkus nerf)

Step 11: Huge increase of wardec costs, while allowing free allies and unrestrained corp-dropping to the defender. (mercs)

Step 12: Insane barge buff. (ganker nerf)

Step 13: Crimewatch (major nerf to hauler/freighter ganking and ninjas)

Step 14: Who knows? Instant Concord death ray? Quoting some fool in FF 2012: "Pewww!"

And thats just high-sec.....I'm not even going to start a list of punitive measures taken against a certain nul-sec Alliance that will remain nameless.

Factor in statements from DEVS, on this very thread: Quotable Winners like "Suicide ganking wasn't designed to be profitable", or "Gankers are expected to lose more than the victim..."

Its pretty clear where these steps are taking us.........


Yes it is clear where this is going and whats worse why are you still fighting it. Obviously some of you need to be clobbered over the head with a two by four to get the message. Quit pushing the game in directions it was not meant to go.

Look at all of those steps the devs made. Are you getting the hint yet? Want to quit? Can I have your stuff?

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#924 - 2012-07-27 01:24:36 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Excellent point

Yeah, I can see how that would be far less than ideal.
Pipa Porto
#925 - 2012-07-27 01:39:44 UTC
Drone 16 wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Step 13: Crimewatch (major nerf to hauler/freighter ganking and ninjas)

I can see ninjas(thieves) getting a nerf, but how are hauler gankers affected?


Gank a hauler on a busy trade network. It leaves a yellow wreck, flagged to the now dead owner.
Scoop the wreck now, you are flagged to the previous owner. Vultures can steal the wreck, but it goes with the territory.

Post-Crimewatch:
Try to scoop the wreck, you get attacked by everyone, vultures and passerby's alike.

Profits are already far from certain due to failed gank attempts, random loot drops, loss of insurance - and vultures.
Now factor in free aggro for everyone....

Now imagine trying to loot a dead freighter.



Gank stopped by passerby:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMZbW2Q92MM


You can shoot the gankers already. If you're going to make an IRL comparison, the looter is picking over the corpse of a dead guy. Illegal, sure. But if you shoot someone who's just looting a corpse, you're going to jail. Just like if you shoot a 3rd party looter in EVE you get CONCORDed.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#926 - 2012-07-27 01:48:28 UTC
Drone 16 wrote:
Back in the day Hulk pilots did have a remedy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndWUlntJ58U

Now they are just meat...

Let's try the new barge layouts out and CCP can always nerf it later. I bet there will still be plenty of ganks.

You mean they can always buff it more later, since you are sure there'll be plenty of ganks..

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tragedy
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#927 - 2012-07-27 01:49:01 UTC
I dont know who whines more. Miners or gankers.
Skogen Gump
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#928 - 2012-07-27 01:55:05 UTC
Matius Toskavich wrote:
Sounds like someone needs a box of tissues as they are to stupid to adapt to the changes?

Shoe is on the other foot so to speak. Roll


A. Men.

Seriously.
Saber DeVor
Uncharted Chaos
#929 - 2012-07-27 02:39:14 UTC
+1 for CCP inadvertently making extremely bot friendly ships! Roll
Pipa Porto
#930 - 2012-07-27 02:54:51 UTC
Skogen Gump wrote:
Matius Toskavich wrote:
Sounds like someone needs a box of tissues as they are to stupid to adapt to the changes?

Shoe is on the other foot so to speak. Roll


A. Men.

Seriously.


A change only "necessary" because miners adamantly refused to adapt for ... counting on my fingers... 5 years of Hulkageddons?

If miners had adapted to the situation, and gankers were crying, I'd be laughing at them. But that's not the situation. CCP has stepped in (yet again) because Miners cried loud and long that they were too lazy to adapt. CCP has decided to reward that.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Danny Diamonds
Fabricated Reality
#931 - 2012-07-27 02:55:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Danny Diamonds
I misunderstood the quoted post. Ignore this.
Ohh Yeah
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#932 - 2012-07-27 02:59:19 UTC
Skiffs have bigger tanks than black ops, discuss
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#933 - 2012-07-27 03:01:14 UTC
the problem is that in the past, hulkageddons generally involved "more expensive" ships like brutixes, discophoons, torp ravens, armageddons and domis, which were insured so the ganker would only really bear a 10-20m loss

then the nth nerf to all risk in hisec took away insurance for concord kills (since publords need to be safe while botting or being AFK) and people started using the newly buffed destroyers and tier 3 battlecruisers

and now, the n+1st nerf to all risk in hisec is vastly increasing the hitpoints on all barges

and soon, the n+2nd nerf to all risk in hisec will ensure that no freighter is worth ganking because looting it will allow everyone in the game, most of whom had no stake in either the defense or attack on that freighter, to shoot you

and the n+3rd nerf will probably equalize concord response times throughout all of hisec, so a 1.0 rookie system is no safer than a 0.5

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#934 - 2012-07-27 03:01:36 UTC
Ohh Yeah wrote:
Skiffs have bigger tanks than black ops, discuss


hmm...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#935 - 2012-07-27 03:01:51 UTC
Danny Diamonds wrote:
So you want to freely shoot Exhumers that have no guns to shoot back with, and are upset that when you steal from a wreck that someone else can shoot you?


someone else can already shoot you

the members of the corp that own the wreck, for instance

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#936 - 2012-07-27 03:03:31 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
the problem is that in the past, hulkageddons generally involved "more expensive" ships like brutixes, discophoons, torp ravens, armageddons and domis, which were insured so the ganker would only really bear a 10-20m loss

then the nth nerf to all risk in hisec took away insurance for concord kills (since publords need to be safe while botting or being AFK) and people started using the newly buffed destroyers and tier 3 battlecruisers

and now, the n+1st nerf to all risk in hisec is vastly increasing the hitpoints on all barges

and soon, the n+2nd nerf to all risk in hisec will ensure that no freighter is worth ganking because looting it will allow everyone in the game, most of whom had no stake in either the defense or attack on that freighter, to shoot you

and the n+3rd nerf will probably equalize concord response times throughout all of hisec, so a 1.0 rookie system is no safer than a 0.5



you guys that bored cuss you won 0.0?

how about you break the circle jerk and have some fun with your "allies"

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#937 - 2012-07-27 03:07:25 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
you guys that bored cuss you won 0.0?

how about you break the circle jerk and have some fun with your "allies"


why do you want a risk-free hisec

tell me that

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Majic Pony Love
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#938 - 2012-07-27 03:08:04 UTC
wow

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom
Herr Hammer Draken
#939 - 2012-07-27 03:42:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Hammer Draken
Pipa Porto wrote:
Skogen Gump wrote:
Matius Toskavich wrote:
Sounds like someone needs a box of tissues as they are to stupid to adapt to the changes?

Shoe is on the other foot so to speak. Roll


A. Men.

Seriously.


A change only "necessary" because miners adamantly refused to adapt for ... counting on my fingers... 5 years of Hulkageddons?

If miners had adapted to the situation, and gankers were crying, I'd be laughing at them. But that's not the situation. CCP has stepped in (yet again) because Miners cried loud and long that they were too lazy to adapt. CCP has decided to reward that.


I see what you did there and that is clearly not the case except in your own mind. The devs have stated that it was a mistake to make the miner vessels profitable to be ganked. But they do not intend to make them gank proof. They are supposed to cost more to gank than they cost to replace when fitted for their role. That was stated already by a dev in this thread. You are wrong. And it has nothing at all to do with a poor war fit as a miner is not a war vessel. It is intended for mining. Just because you can does not mean you should.

What happens in EVE when anyone pushes an exploit too far. It gets nerfed. How many times do you have to be nerfed before you get the hint? Obviously the devs have not nerfed you enough yet. You are still beating the dead horse.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#940 - 2012-07-27 03:46:44 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
They are supposed to cost more to gank than they cost to replace when fitted for their role.


hint: they're not going to cost more to replace than what it costs to gank them even after 1.1

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration