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Please explain. What is a tankable Hulk?
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Dave Stark
#41 - 2012-07-27 00:43:03 UTC
Henry Kaine wrote:
Any kind of tank makes you less of a target than the 98.06123% of players who do not tank their hulks. And you can believe that statistic, it's on the internet.


another interesting fact is that 4/3 people can't do fractions.
Ayeshah Volfield
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-07-27 00:44:00 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:
It looks like your whining paid off though because CCP is handing you idiot proof mining barges and hulks.


"It is impossible to make anything foolproof, because fools are so ingenious." --RobertHeinlein

EVE is what happens when the rule of law does not apply and Darwinism is allowed to run freely.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2012-07-27 00:45:02 UTC
Katie Frost wrote:
@ OP:

Could you please post up a fit for a... uhm... say, Harbinger - with the following requirements:

1) It must be able to tank 4 Vindicators point blank for at least 20 secs,
2) It must be able to put out at least 600 DPS,
3) Move at least 1450 m/s with the MWD on.

Thanks...

... no?

So you are saying that I have to pick between a heavy tank, high DPS, or kiting ability in my ship fitting? I can't have all 3 at once? I don't see how this makes EVE easier for me. Can someone report this thread to CCP, OP has found a major bug that needs to be fixedAttention

Nice escalation of scale there. Clearly going from doable, as has been shown, to slightly ridiculous.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#44 - 2012-07-27 00:49:05 UTC
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
No I sense CCP caving in and dumbing down EVE.

Um, this is old news. From missile and nano nerfs, to ships like the Dram and the Drake, CCP has been making Eve easier for a very long time for people that can't be bothered to be adaptive, clever or inventive. Nerf this, nerf that, this is too hard, that is too hard, this is hands down, bar none the single most nerfed game that I have played, with some of the whiniest people playing it.

Just wish I could turn back the clock a few years at least.

What about the Drake?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#45 - 2012-07-27 00:50:32 UTC
Ayeshah Volfield wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
It looks like your whining paid off though because CCP is handing you idiot proof mining barges and hulks.

"It is impossible to make anything foolproof, because fools are so ingenious." --RobertHeinlein

CCP can still buff it some more, don't worry they can push that string HARD if they want.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Spaceman Jack
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-07-27 13:26:32 UTC
DANG - These are really great answers. thank you for all the replies.
Gonna test some of these out though the new barges will change all this.
(I wasn't being rude in delaying my response, just was not around a computer)

Ginsing excluded - that girl has serious diarrhea of the mouth and a constipation of ideas.
Not one constructive post for the all crap she talks.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#47 - 2012-07-27 15:04:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Jaison Savrin wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
Some of these are way over the top tank fits and my measly decent tanked hulk could do just as good of job. The problem with miners that get ganked 90% of the time is they have zero tank and then fit it with rigs that actually remove armor and then they come on the forums and whine that they got ganked. They got ganked because they chose not to use the tools provided to protect their assets properly.

CCP gave you a choice. Either fit a tank or fit for yield. Many of you choose yield. That is not CCP's fault, that is yours. It looks like your whining paid off though because CCP is handing you idiot proof mining barges and hulks.



I sense much bitterness in you. Seriously, you make me giggle with how upset you are over changes....

You are confusing bitterness with derisive amusement.

I don't think anyone is overly concerned, especially since the fits shown in this thread have always been available and largely been ignored. Even with new ships available, it's not likely that this will change to any large degree.

Greed lowers one's survival instinct.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Spaceman Jack
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-07-27 15:59:08 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:
[Nice try - never said they could be made ungankable. I said almost all ganks.


So if they can stop "almost all ganks", that would make them ungankable.
LOL - You cannot even understand your own logic.

And if they can be setup to stop almost all ganks, then there should be a way to do it, Despite all you commentary, you failed to back up your claims and explain how that could be done. Good thing others picked up your slack. I thank the rest of the community for that.

Don't be so mad, everything is confusing when you don't know what you are doing.
Just ask for help like I did, you can see most people are willing to show the way.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#49 - 2012-07-27 19:26:53 UTC
I'm glad you found the information you were looking for.

However...
Quote:
So if they can stop "almost all ganks", that would make them ungankable.
LOL - You cannot even understand your own logic.

This makes absolutely no sense.

"Almost all" in no way means "All"... or in this case "ungankable". This distinction is rather the whole point of using the word "almost".

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2012-07-27 20:33:39 UTC
Aug 8th.

All the coward bullies can look for real PvP in lowsec ... if they can grow some.

No more easy miner ganks 4u!

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Spaceman Jack
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-07-30 13:37:24 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
I'm glad you found the information you were looking for.

However...
Quote:
So if they can stop "almost all ganks", that would make them ungankable.
LOL - You cannot even understand your own logic.

This makes absolutely no sense.

"Almost all" in no way means "All"... or in this case "ungankable". This distinction is rather the whole point of using the word "almost".


The foundation of her claim is that hulks can be setup to be in a position not to be ganked... which would make them ungankable. How is this difficult to comprehend? Roll Obviously "almost all" mans not all. Now you going to tell me that "almost all" is not a significant portion?

Regardless of the percentage she was thinking of, it still does not change her claim that any amount of hulks can be made "ungankable." She failed to prove her claim despite three pages of opportunities. Nuff said.
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-07-30 13:52:08 UTC
Spaceman Jack wrote:
DANG - These are really great answers. thank you for all the replies.
Gonna test some of these out though the new barges will change all this.
(I wasn't being rude in delaying my response, just was not around a computer)

Ginsing excluded - that girl has serious diarrhea of the mouth and a constipation of ideas.
Not one constructive post for the all crap she talks.


Stealth fit my ship thread...well done sir.

James315 for CSM 8!
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2012-07-30 13:53:23 UTC
Spaceman Jack wrote:
- Must be able to mine at least 75% of its potential yield.


sounds like that's your problem then

"i want to supertank my abaddon AND get 1000 dps from it"

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Sarcasim
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#54 - 2012-07-30 13:59:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarcasim
Ginseng Jita wrote:
Spaceman Jack wrote:
Lots of p!ssy suicide gankers been saying that Hulks should just tank better to prevent "most" ganks.
None of them have shown this is possible.

Please indulge me with the following ->
List a gank-proof fit that can still allow the ship to do its base function for a reasonable profit.

Requirements:
- Fit must protect against at least TWO properly fit catalysts for 20 seconds OR ONE battleship for 10 seconds.
- Must be able to mine at least 75% of its potential yield.

This is based off Concord times since Mining ships are still allowed in HiSec and te obvious nature of the attack takes this into account. Thank you.


You're an idiot first off. Second, nobody has said that current hulks can be made totally ungankable. Plus, it is a matter of you the player making a choice. If you choose not to use the tools to tank your hulk and decide you want yield instead - go ahead and do it, just be aware that you are opening yourself up for a gank.

It really is that simple. Either you choose to make yourself a less desirable target or you paint a huge target on the side of your hulk. Properly tank hulks are passed by as most gankers want to ensure a kill - a decent tanked hulk will not be their target.


You can always tell you have struck a nerve when the very first sentenance is an insult. If you cant make a hulk not profitable to gank why bother?
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2012-07-30 14:07:22 UTC
also the yield sacrifice is less than 15%

it's a sad day when CCP feels that they have to make these ships idiot-proof because 15% is too much yield for the poor, poor miners to sacrifice

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#56 - 2012-07-30 14:07:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Hobb
Sentamon wrote:
Aug 8th.

All the coward bullies can look for real PvP in lowsec ... if they can grow some.

No more easy miner ganks 4u!

Where is that date posted? I was wondering when I should be training up for a barge.
E: Ahah! The page I never check! Thanks for that.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#57 - 2012-07-30 14:13:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Sarcasim wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
Spaceman Jack wrote:
Lots of p!ssy suicide gankers been saying that Hulks should just tank better to prevent "most" ganks.
None of them have shown this is possible.

Please indulge me with the following ->
List a gank-proof fit that can still allow the ship to do its base function for a reasonable profit.

Requirements:
- Fit must protect against at least TWO properly fit catalysts for 20 seconds OR ONE battleship for 10 seconds.
- Must be able to mine at least 75% of its potential yield.

This is based off Concord times since Mining ships are still allowed in HiSec and te obvious nature of the attack takes this into account. Thank you.


You're an idiot first off. Second, nobody has said that current hulks can be made totally ungankable. Plus, it is a matter of you the player making a choice. If you choose not to use the tools to tank your hulk and decide you want yield instead - go ahead and do it, just be aware that you are opening yourself up for a gank.

It really is that simple. Either you choose to make yourself a less desirable target or you paint a huge target on the side of your hulk. Properly tank hulks are passed by as most gankers want to ensure a kill - a decent tanked hulk will not be their target.


You can always tell you have struck a nerve when the very first sentenance is an insult. If you cant make a hulk not profitable to gank why bother?


It is true that starting off with an insult usually isn't the best way to convince someone of something. Smile

That being said, it is quite possible to make a Hulk unprofitable to suicide gank, and therefore the chances of the attempt being made on you go down significantly. That was the point.

You have to keep in mind that if someone really, really wants to gank you there is no ship in EVE that isn't gankable. In that aspect the Hulk is no different than any other ship. This same lesson applies to even the tankiest of barges after the update as well.

Unlikely to be targetted for the attempt, yes.

Unlikely to die if a typical attempt is made, yes.

Completely ungankable, no. Nothing in EVE is.

Bottom line, if you are worried about being ganked you will now have better options. In other words, if you aren't in an area you can secure and working with Orca support in a mining fleet... choose something else.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2012-07-30 14:15:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Sentamon wrote:
Aug 8th.

All the coward bullies can look for real PvP in lowsec ... if they can grow some.

No more easy miner ganks 4u!


since hisec will be much safer for the average player come 8/8, especially when they implement that crimewatch bullshit, perhaps CCP should look at reducing rewards across the board

remove incursions from hisec, move l4s to lowsec, move all ore except the lowest form of veldspar to lowsec and restrict hisec manufacturing to t1 crap

hahaha let's face it they'll never do that, time to start a betting pool on when the game is dead

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#59 - 2012-07-30 14:18:24 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
Aug 8th.

All the coward bullies can look for real PvP in lowsec ... if they can grow some.

No more easy miner ganks 4u!


since hisec will be much safer for the average player come 8/8, especially when they implement that crimewatch bullshit, perhaps CCP should look at reducing rewards across the board

remove incursions from hisec, move l4s to lowsec, move all ore except the lowest form of veldspar to lowsec and restrict hisec manufacturing to t1 crap

hahaha let's face it they'll never do that, time to start a betting pool on when the game is dead


Actually, the crimewatch changes will probably do more for PVP than anything we've seen in quite some time. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Tikera Tissant
#60 - 2012-07-30 14:23:07 UTC
Spaceman Jack wrote:
Lots of p!ssy suicide gankers been saying that Hulks should just tank better to prevent "most" ganks.
None of them have shown this is possible.

Please indulge me with the following ->
List a gank-proof fit that can still allow the ship to do its base function for a reasonable profit.

Requirements:
- Fit must protect against at least TWO properly fit catalysts for 20 seconds OR ONE battleship for 10 seconds.
- Must be able to mine at least 75% of its potential yield.

This is based off Concord times since Mining ships are still allowed in HiSec and te obvious nature of the attack takes this into account. Thank you.


You can look at this fit.
This is give or take a tanking hulk to almost maxing it out its abilities.

Currently without very perfect skills and implants, a hulk pilot will most likely not survive against two full skilled catalysts with overheating weapons, unless he sacrifice the hull's em/explosive resists in the hope the catalysts will do only antimatter damage (thermal/kinetic), but than again, he will die if they do their homework.

An orca pilot with warfare skills might increase his armor to be just a bit to maybe barely survive.

The hulk's only option will be ECM drones if he is skilled well, in which case one catalyst will be nulled out of the equation.

in a few days, the changes will make this fit a 40K ehp fit (give or take), in which case even a not fully tanked hulk will survive 2 catalysts. But if you bring a third friend, he is dead.