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Barge Fairy Tale

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Big Bossu
Primal Instinct Inc.
The Initiative.
#841 - 2012-07-26 22:31:05 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Big Bossu wrote:
Besides... CCP was worried about lack of mining/miners, so they buff miners by giving them stronger ships, so they could go for full yield without worrying about destroyer ganks - that isn't unreasonable way to boost them at all.


as opposed to miners who aren't even watching the client, let alone local


Local really doesn't help in highsec vs random gankers.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#842 - 2012-07-26 22:32:14 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Because L4 mission runners and PI players or hi sec anom farmers need to rabidly watch the client and squeeze out their eyes on local...


click a name in the local list

ctrl-a

if somebody enters local, it's more noticeable

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#843 - 2012-07-26 22:32:50 UTC
Big Bossu wrote:
Local really doesn't help in highsec vs random gankers.


"that negative sec flagged guy entering my belt in a catalyst must be here to mine with me"

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#844 - 2012-07-26 22:33:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Mara Rinn wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
And here is the same fitting without all the fluff nobody bar 1% of the playerbase will ever care to bring on the field: …


Orcas are the core of most mining fleets I see in the belts, regardless of whether they are accompanied by two hulks or two dozen mackinaws. People bring Orcas for the logistical benefits: not having to warp back to station every few cycles means you get a higher harvesting efficiency. The fleets with more than a half-dozen exhumers are often accompanied by a gang booster ship such as a Tengu.

I'm not sure where you get this idea that "nobody bar 1% of the player base" will use boosting ships or Orcas.


You put an implicit or. I put an explicit and: Tengu, implants and Orcas.
I have seen *1* fleet using RR (amarr BS and Dominix) and another using *1* logistics ship in the last months. Much less using Tengus and whatever. Those with a Tengu use it for something more active than that.

Also, larger mining fleets that may field additional support, don't need to bring crappy 600 per minute mining yield fits shown in the lolexamples anyway

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Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#845 - 2012-07-26 22:38:42 UTC
Big Bossu wrote:
Local really doesn't help in highsec vs random gankers.


on that note, watching a movie really doesn't help either

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Jed Bobby
Doomheim
#846 - 2012-07-26 22:40:00 UTC
all these guys think eve is real life.
its a ******* game lol
calm down and play and stop being such wieners
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#847 - 2012-07-26 22:40:40 UTC
so what we've established in this thread is that miners can more actively protect themselves /with/ the current stats on exhumers but it's inconvenient when they want to leave the game alt-tabbed while they watch a movie

i'm glad that CCP is fixing this

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Big Bossu
Primal Instinct Inc.
The Initiative.
#848 - 2012-07-26 22:41:14 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Big Bossu wrote:
Local really doesn't help in highsec vs random gankers.


"that negative sec flagged guy entering my belt in a catalyst must be here to mine with me"


Tbh, unfair comparison, because in 0.0, when I carebear I have at very least 30 seconds warning, in realistic scenarios many many minutes. In fact I am doing a complex right now as I am typing this, and I really cannot see myself dying.

This whole topic is sad. 45 pages of 0.0 players whining that they can't gank hulks as easily as they could before.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#849 - 2012-07-26 22:41:40 UTC
Jed Bobby wrote:
all these guys think eve is real life.
its a ******* game lol
calm down and play and stop being such wieners


Yeah, its a game, but its a game I kind of like.

Would rather not see it screwed up because of whining miners and DEVs who want to let their carebear flag fly.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#850 - 2012-07-26 22:43:09 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
You put an implicit or. I put an explicit and: Tengu, implants and Orcas.


You put an explicit "none" in the fitting screenshot.

Now change that explicit "none" to "Orca with Shield Harmonization & Armor Passive Defence warfare links, pilot has Armor & Shield specialization to 5, but is only using the Mining Foreman Mindlink." That Orca is already being used as a giant jet can to support two hulks, so you may as well use it to maximise the defenses of the fleet. Then for extra sauce, have the Orca pilot as wing commander. Move one of the hulk pilots to squad commander, and fit the Siege Warfare Mindlink and have Siege Warfare Specialization trained to 5.

It's amazing what you can squeeze out of a small, productive fleet if you set things up properly. There isn't even need for a Tengu or remote reps.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Herr Hammer Draken
#851 - 2012-07-26 22:43:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Hammer Draken
Richard Desturned wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
One where once you pulled the trigger you knew you had everything covered and would make out like a bandit.


*miner launches medium ECM drones and permajams one of the catalysts, flubbing the gank entirely*


That would be an active miner. In my example I am refering to a bot miner. When you are ganking a miner you can determine if the target is a bot. If it is you have all day to plan the perfect gank and get away with profit. In my example I was also refering to being hired to kill this bot. Now it will cost the ganker more in ships to do it, kill the bot after Aug 8th. But it is still just sitting there waiting to be killed and you still get all the salvage.

Killing an active miner is more problemattic and should be more costly to do.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#852 - 2012-07-26 22:44:00 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Jed Bobby wrote:
all these guys think eve is real life.
its a ******* game lol
calm down and play and stop being such wieners


Yeah, its a game, but its a game I kind of like.

Would rather not see it screwed up because of whining miners and DEVs who want to let their carebear flag fly.


Game will certainly die because you need to bring 1 more catalyst to kill the evil and dangerous Hulk. Got it. The sky will fall soon.

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Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#853 - 2012-07-26 22:45:38 UTC
Big Bossu wrote:
Tbh, unfair comparison, because in 0.0, when I carebear I have at very least 30 seconds warning, in realistic scenarios many many minutes. In fact I am doing a complex right now as I am typing this, and I really cannot see myself dying.


are you watching a movie while running complexes?

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#854 - 2012-07-26 22:46:14 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Jed Bobby wrote:
all these guys think eve is real life.
its a ******* game lol
calm down and play and stop being such wieners


Yeah, its a game, but its a game I kind of like.

Would rather not see it screwed up because of whining miners and DEVs who want to let their carebear flag fly.


Game will certainly die because you need to bring 1 more catalyst to kill the evil and dangerous Hulk. Got it. The sky will fall soon.


And like 10 T2 catalysts for a skiff in a 0.5 system.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#855 - 2012-07-26 22:47:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
That would be an active miner. In my example I am refering to a bot miner. When you are ganking a miner you can determine if the target is a bot. If it is you have all day to plan the perfect gank and get away with profit. In my example I was also refering to being hired to kill this bot. Now it will cost the ganker more in ships to do it kill the bot after Aug 8th. But it is still just sitting there waiting to be killed and you still get all the salvage.

Killing an active miner is more problemattic and should be more costly to do.


yeah the fact that you can cheaply gank a hulk that is either a bot or not paying any attention at all whatsoever is indicative of a gigantic balance issue in the game

an active miner has so many ways to mitigate ganks

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Big Bossu
Primal Instinct Inc.
The Initiative.
#856 - 2012-07-26 22:50:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Big Bossu
Richard Desturned wrote:
Big Bossu wrote:
Tbh, unfair comparison, because in 0.0, when I carebear I have at very least 30 seconds warning, in realistic scenarios many many minutes. In fact I am doing a complex right now as I am typing this, and I really cannot see myself dying.


are you watching a movie while running complexes?


Ishtar is pretty good for afking plexes.

edit: also in 0.0 mining gangs most people, at least the ones i know of, watch movies. You only need 1 active to say something in TS/Vent and/or fleet warp away.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#857 - 2012-07-26 22:50:57 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
so what we've established in this thread is that miners can more actively protect themselves /with/ the current stats on exhumers but it's inconvenient when they want to leave the game alt-tabbed while they watch a movie

i'm glad that CCP is fixing this


More or less.
Many fittings have been demonstrated that provide ample protection from Catalysts and Tornados.

We always get the same response - "But then I have to mine slower."

News Flash: When you glass-cannon fit your ******* Exhumer, you don't last as long in a fight.
Just like PVP - you max-DPS your fits, you lose BIG in other places, due to stacking rules.

If I was a miner, I'd be like meaner version of Mara.

Tank up, and mine a little slower - or fit for Yield and keep a very sharp eye on the situation - with aggressive ECM drones out.

Instead of warning other miners in local, I'd just laff my ass off when my competition loses 8 Mackinaws to a smartbomb attack, and try to scoop as much salvage as I could.

Then I'd think about all those mineral/ice sell orders that I won't have to compete with.

Fortunately, I've already earned my passive income generating 'nestegg' ganking haulers and manufacturing Exhumers, so I don't really need to spend my gametime grinding ISK in the belts.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#858 - 2012-07-26 22:51:00 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Also, larger mining fleets that may field additional support, don't need to bring crappy 600 per minute mining yield fits shown in the lolexamples anyway


You don't need additional support to fly high yield mining fleets. Just pick the right system and watch local: even in hisec, watching local works. Scout the belts, get an idea of who is in system mining, get to mining and watch for names you don't recognise.

And your "crappy" is nothing more than "baseline". That "crappy" Hulk fit is still higher yield than an all-5 max yield Osprey.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#859 - 2012-07-26 22:52:03 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
You put an implicit or. I put an explicit and: Tengu, implants and Orcas.


You put an explicit "none" in the fitting screenshot.

Now change that explicit "none" to "Orca with Shield Harmonization & Armor Passive Defence warfare links, pilot has Armor & Shield specialization to 5, but is only using the Mining Foreman Mindlink." That Orca is already being used as a giant jet can to support two hulks, so you may as well use it to maximise the defenses of the fleet. Then for extra sauce, have the Orca pilot as wing commander. Move one of the hulk pilots to squad commander, and fit the Siege Warfare Mindlink and have Siege Warfare Specialization trained to 5.

It's amazing what you can squeeze out of a small, productive fleet if you set things up properly. There isn't even need for a Tengu or remote reps.


That's the setup I use(d), (I also produce Orcas and all their mods...) but I don't arrogate myself to impose such expensive setup on other players who could as well be new-ish or without the means to get all that bling including a command ship.

See I can see competitive tournament PvP games being purely balanced on the top of the top of the elite with the best gear and skills and using Naga / Sensei peripherals with special pads and so on.

But not a generalistic MMO and much less one where they are striving to finally improve new players experience.
What are going to do those without the mythical "all V skills" that today struggle going above 10K EHP? Be told to suck it up and return to the game in 1 year and after they purchased Orca + alt?

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#860 - 2012-07-26 22:53:11 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Also, larger mining fleets that may field additional support, don't need to bring crappy 600 per minute mining yield fits shown in the lolexamples anyway


You don't need additional support to fly high yield mining fleets. Just pick the right system and watch local: even in hisec, watching local works. Scout the belts, get an idea of who is in system mining, get to mining and watch for names you don't recognise.

And your "crappy" is nothing more than "baseline". That "crappy" Hulk fit is still higher yield than an all-5 max yield Osprey.


I have done 80% ice mining (including when it was 1300 isk PU), there's not a lot of ice systems where to get out of gankers attention.

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