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Context of Mining Barge Changes
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Callic Veratar
#1 - 2012-07-26 21:04:28 UTC
This post does contain speculation. It'd be awesome if CCP Ytterbium, Tallest, or Fozzie could comment, though it may be way too early in design for that to happen.

=====

I've spent most of the day reading the various complaints about the mining barge buffs. It's fairly clear that many players seem to think that they've gone too far, making the barges too strong. Considering the currently available ships, I would tend to agree. It's a bit ridiculous that it will take a couple Talos to take down the average barge. This is missing some key details that we know are coming in the near future.

First is that destroyers are being rebalanced. This might not mean a lot, but based on the changes to the frigates so far, it's not unreasonable to expect that the existing tier 1 destroyers will do more damage.

Second, we know that new destroyers are coming. Possibly 4, maybe 8. Considering what we know of the battlecruiser line up, I would not be surprised if we saw a new line of more powerful destroyers and potentially an 8 medium gun destroyer.

I suspect this balancing action is not for what there is, but for what there will be.
Dave stark
#2 - 2012-07-26 21:06:16 UTC
how are new mining barges too powerful? max possible yield hasn't changed.

oh, you mean too strong as they're no longer fodder for 3m isk ships?
Charles Baker
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-07-26 21:07:59 UTC
News just in, the entire world could sustain itself on the tears generated by these changes.
Callic Veratar
#4 - 2012-07-26 21:08:51 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
how are new mining barges too powerful? max possible yield hasn't changed.

oh, you mean too strong as they're no longer fodder for 3m isk ships?


Not that they're no longer fodder for 3m isk ships, that they're still not fodder for 200m isk ships. The tank is about double what it needs to be, which, if there are ships that can put out double the damage, would make significantly more sense.
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#5 - 2012-07-26 21:08:55 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
This post does contain speculation. It'd be awesome if CCP Ytterbium, Tallest, or Fozzie could comment, though it may be way too early in design for that to happen.

=====

I've spent most of the day reading the various complaints about the mining barge buffs. It's fairly clear that many players seem to think that they've gone too far, making the barges too strong. Considering the currently available ships, I would tend to agree. It's a bit ridiculous that it will take a couple Talos to take down the average barge. This is missing some key details that we know are coming in the near future.

First is that destroyers are being rebalanced. This might not mean a lot, but based on the changes to the frigates so far, it's not unreasonable to expect that the existing tier 1 destroyers will do more damage.

Second, we know that new destroyers are coming. Possibly 4, maybe 8. Considering what we know of the battlecruiser line up, I would not be surprised if we saw a new line of more powerful destroyers and potentially an 8 medium gun destroyer.

I suspect this balancing action is not for what there is, but for what there will be.




Gotta ask. Why couldn't you post this in one of the other threads?
Callic Veratar
#6 - 2012-07-26 21:10:06 UTC
Charles Baker wrote:
News just in, the entire world could sustain itself on the tears generated by these changes.


I've never shot any ships in my life. (I have been ganked a few times, though).
Equus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-07-26 21:10:22 UTC
Charles Baker wrote:
News just in, the entire world could sustain itself on the tears generated by these changes.


Isn't it wonderful? It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.
Callic Veratar
#8 - 2012-07-26 21:10:48 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Gotta ask. Why couldn't you post this in one of the other threads?


Because I felt that this is a different topic that's not being covered there. Also the rage spam that's happening in the other conversations would drown this out in an instant.
Dave stark
#9 - 2012-07-26 21:11:27 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
how are new mining barges too powerful? max possible yield hasn't changed.

oh, you mean too strong as they're no longer fodder for 3m isk ships?


Not that they're no longer fodder for 3m isk ships, that they're still not fodder for 200m isk ships. The tank is about double what it needs to be, which, if there are ships that can put out double the damage, would make significantly more sense.


the corner of your eye is leaking.
Callic Veratar
#10 - 2012-07-26 21:12:07 UTC
Equus wrote:
Charles Baker wrote:
News just in, the entire world could sustain itself on the tears generated by these changes.


Isn't it wonderful? It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.


Tears of joy maybe. I'll be in an ice belt mining the day these updates go live.
Charles Baker
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-07-26 21:12:51 UTC
Equus wrote:
Charles Baker wrote:
News just in, the entire world could sustain itself on the tears generated by these changes.


Isn't it wonderful? It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.


I've began anchoring tear extractors on every moon in highsec.
Callic Veratar
#12 - 2012-07-26 21:13:51 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Callic Veratar wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
how are new mining barges too powerful? max possible yield hasn't changed.

oh, you mean too strong as they're no longer fodder for 3m isk ships?


Not that they're no longer fodder for 3m isk ships, that they're still not fodder for 200m isk ships. The tank is about double what it needs to be, which, if there are ships that can put out double the damage, would make significantly more sense.


the corner of your eye is leaking.


I'm happy with the changes, thanks, I own a full set of barges and intend to buy more once the prices start dropping.
Dave stark
#13 - 2012-07-26 21:14:59 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Callic Veratar wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
how are new mining barges too powerful? max possible yield hasn't changed.

oh, you mean too strong as they're no longer fodder for 3m isk ships?


Not that they're no longer fodder for 3m isk ships, that they're still not fodder for 200m isk ships. The tank is about double what it needs to be, which, if there are ships that can put out double the damage, would make significantly more sense.


the corner of your eye is leaking.


I'm happy with the changes, thanks, I own a full set of barges and intend to buy more once the prices start dropping.


be careful, tech prices and all.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-07-26 21:15:13 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Callic Veratar wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
how are new mining barges too powerful? max possible yield hasn't changed.

oh, you mean too strong as they're no longer fodder for 3m isk ships?


Not that they're no longer fodder for 3m isk ships, that they're still not fodder for 200m isk ships. The tank is about double what it needs to be, which, if there are ships that can put out double the damage, would make significantly more sense.


the corner of your eye is leaking.



You !!!

Made me spit my Perrier by my nose Lol

brb
qDoctor Strangelove
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-07-26 21:15:49 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Callic Veratar wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
how are new mining barges too powerful? max possible yield hasn't changed.

oh, you mean too strong as they're no longer fodder for 3m isk ships?


Not that they're no longer fodder for 3m isk ships, that they're still not fodder for 200m isk ships. The tank is about double what it needs to be, which, if there are ships that can put out double the damage, would make significantly more sense.


the corner of your eye is leaking.


you can easily get a 30k+ EHP Hulk Fit as it is today...
What the hell is wrong with that? And if that barge is moving, there is NO WAY to catch it with T1 destroyers.

And this is not a buff at all, it is a nerf, as it will make alternatives to the Hulk. Alternatives that WILL mine less.



Kieron VonDeux
#16 - 2012-07-26 21:16:31 UTC
The scale of the changes were forced by the extent that the gankers went to overplay the situation.
The WarDec nerf of 07ish was the result of something simialr when the Privateers wardec'd nearly everyone they could think of.

The gankers only have to blame themselves.
Callic Veratar
#17 - 2012-07-26 21:18:40 UTC
qDoctor Strangelove wrote:
you can easily get a 30k+ EHP Hulk Fit as it is today...
What the hell is wrong with that? And if that barge is moving, there is NO WAY to catch it with T1 destroyers.

And this is not a buff at all, it is a nerf, as it will make alternatives to the Hulk. Alternatives that WILL mine less.


What about a Tier 3 destroyer that uses medium blasters? Quick EFT of a Brutix gives 800-1000 DPS if not more, which means no pre-buff hulk is ever safe.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-07-26 21:22:59 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
qDoctor Strangelove wrote:
you can easily get a 30k+ EHP Hulk Fit as it is today...
What the hell is wrong with that? And if that barge is moving, there is NO WAY to catch it with T1 destroyers.

And this is not a buff at all, it is a nerf, as it will make alternatives to the Hulk. Alternatives that WILL mine less.


What about a Tier 3 destroyer that uses medium blasters? Quick EFT of a Brutix gives 800-1000 DPS if not more, which means no pre-buff hulk is ever safe.



Some DEV *oink* shows clearly they will not put T3 destroyers in the game, tomorrow, next week, and actually never. But seems Battleships could be the next T3, so gank with T3 battleships or cheapo throw away Tornados with a 10M bone.

brb
Callic Veratar
#19 - 2012-07-26 21:27:56 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Callic Veratar wrote:
qDoctor Strangelove wrote:
you can easily get a 30k+ EHP Hulk Fit as it is today...
What the hell is wrong with that? And if that barge is moving, there is NO WAY to catch it with T1 destroyers.

And this is not a buff at all, it is a nerf, as it will make alternatives to the Hulk. Alternatives that WILL mine less.


What about a Tier 3 destroyer that uses medium blasters? Quick EFT of a Brutix gives 800-1000 DPS if not more, which means no pre-buff hulk is ever safe.



Some DEV *oink* shows clearly they will not put T3 destroyers in the game, tomorrow, next week, and actually never. But seems Battleships could be the next T3, so gank with T3 battleships or cheapo throw away Tornados with a 10M bone.


TIER 3 and TECH 3 are different things. The Tornado is not TECH 3, it's TIER 3. When I say TIER 3 destroyer I mean a destroyer with up-sized guns, not a destroyer with subsystems.
Knight Cabbage
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-07-26 21:29:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Knight Cabbage
I would like to put forward a more simple, alternative theory: Due to the extended ganking and hate campaign against high sec miners, EVE was losing users whose main characters were miners. Now, most hardcore real industrialists have several accounts, so a loss of players in this area hits CCP quite hard. CCP tries to put a stop at this by making for profit ganking of mining ships impossible and throwing a few bones to miners.

Of course this is all speculation, but it would explain why they suddently put in these quite far reaching changes this summer, although they were initially announced for the winter expansion.
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