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Pirate ships with HUGE damage bonuses

Author
Raukhur
NorthMount
#41 - 2012-07-26 19:28:15 UTC
[quote=Liang Nuren.

If you're interested in solo PVP, why don't you swing by Amamake? :)

-Liang[/quote]

I actually did just that and got jumped by Liang and a couple more. Guess one needs to ask for 1v1 but being in amamake that's not worth much :-)

Not complaining at all, just saying that amamake might not be the best place for soloing. But will come have a look again

Cheers
Alara IonStorm
#42 - 2012-07-26 19:41:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Jonas Land wrote:

OK.... maybe you missed the part of my post where I asked about the 100-200% damage bonuses on the frigates? show me a single missle platform with 100% damage bonuses..... anywhere in EVE.

Daredevil has a 200% Damage Bonus on 2 Turrets giving it 6 Effective Turrets.

Hookbill receives a 20% Dmg Bonus per Level adding up to 100% on 3 Launchers giving it 6 effective Launchers.

Now the Hawk has a 10% Dmg Bonus per Level adding up to 50% on 4 Launchers giving it 6 Effective Launchers... Then all those Launchers fire 25% faster. Find the Blaster Boat that can do that.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#43 - 2012-07-26 19:50:47 UTC
Raukhur wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:


If you're interested in solo PVP, why don't you swing by Amamake? :)

-Liang


I actually did just that and got jumped by Liang and a couple more. Guess one needs to ask for 1v1 but being in amamake that's not worth much :-)

Not complaining at all, just saying that amamake might not be the best place for soloing. But will come have a look again

Cheers


That's a really neat trick considering I was eating Ethiopian food at lunch while you were allegedly jumped by me and more. But yes, if you don't ask for a 1v1 there's no reasonable reason to believe either party is looking for it. At any rate, I've never heard of Heretics not honoring an agreed upon 1v1. Certainly not "at night" (US TZ).

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#44 - 2012-07-26 20:52:47 UTC
Just a quick question, OP do you have someone to log you into the eve client every time you want to play? I'm just struggling to comprehend how you summon the mental agility to actually log in.


This thread is now about: Amamake


For the purposes of travel it is better to pretend the Ama-Osso gate does not exist. c/d?

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#45 - 2012-07-26 20:55:34 UTC
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:

This thread is now about: Amamake

For the purposes of travel it is better to pretend the Ama-Osso gate does not exist. c/d?


In EU TZ/"mornings" that's definitely a no-go route. SeBo'd Legions + Orca support is a ***** to get even a frig through. At night it isn't so bad.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-07-26 21:01:17 UTC
There used to be one, then CCP ruined the Rattlesnake.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

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SB Rico
Sumo Wrestlers
#47 - 2012-07-26 21:02:47 UTC
Too much of a wall of text cos of people arguing, so this may have been said by someone better looking than myself, if that is possible.

Apologies cos I stopped reading midway through page 1.

The op does have a point it could be argued that as no pirate faction actually deploys drones habitually (except spider drones in some missions/rogue drones themselves), that the rattlesnake/gila drone damage bonus does not in fact truly represent the traits of that faction (it is after all a guristas ship)

Would it not be more reflective of the guristas combat style to give these 2 ships missile or even (and this will upset people but I have to say it) ECM. By the way I would then argue Angel ships should have target painting/web bonuses, Sansha ships tracking disruption bonuses and Serpentis ships damp bonuses. Which would balance the fact that the Blood Raider BS does have a nos/neut bonus.

I am not really trying to debate turrets vs missiles as a general concern just asking whether people think a rattlesnake really does reflect a guristas ship?

Scammers are currently selling killrights on this toon for up to 5mil, if you have paid for this service demand your money back at once.

Killing me should be for free.

Korg Tronix
Mole Station Nursery
#48 - 2012-07-26 21:12:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Korg Tronix
Jonas Land wrote:
Arguing with Liaing making yourself look stupid


http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=14217815

This fight occurred before the AF buff and wasn't particularly close, I pvp in Missile frigs almost exclusively and will tell you that raw dps means jack **** in most of the fights.

Also as for the taking down BS in low dps frigates, I have killed and ransom a couple of hurricanes in a cheetah before, dps means nothing if the person is buffer tanked.


Jonas Land wrote:
Ok... just so all the nit-pickers and perfectionists in the game are satisfied... I'll make it more clear...


There are no missle platform FRIGATES in the game with the damage bonuses of the Cruor, Daredevil, Dramiel, Succubus...

All platforms are covered EXCEPT missles ( and yes drones).


And yet minus the Daredevil I would confidently fight any of them in my standard Hookbill let alone my Hawks

Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One! [zaps one of his minions accidentally, minion screams]

Korg Tronix
Mole Station Nursery
#49 - 2012-07-26 21:14:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Korg Tronix
Double Post

Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One! [zaps one of his minions accidentally, minion screams]

Korg Tronix
Mole Station Nursery
#50 - 2012-07-26 21:21:26 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Raukhur wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:


If you're interested in solo PVP, why don't you swing by Amamake? :)

-Liang
Stuff


At any rate, I've never heard of Heretics not honoring an agreed upon 1v1. Certainly not "at night" (US TZ).

-Liang


Certainly wasn't in the EU tz when I was a Heretic unless a lot has changed in the two weeks since i left

Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One! [zaps one of his minions accidentally, minion screams]

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#51 - 2012-07-26 21:37:16 UTC
Jonas Land wrote:
Actually I fly a Hawk and do very well with it... but the original qustion was basically....... Why is there no longer a missle platform frigate with large damage bonuses? Why did they take it out.... What if i just don't want to use guns? There was a pirate missle boat, and they changed it.... WHY?


So you're complaining about a change to the Dramiel that happened three years ago and solidly put the Dram on top of the forum whine nerf list for most of the interceding time? That's just... I don't even know.

Look, you clearly want a missile-based pirate frigate. It's actually not a bad idea. I'd recommend you completely revamp your argument as to why one would be good, lay out how it fits into the current EVE environment, and post the idea in Features and Ideas. If you'd like it to get noticed, stay away from any arguments that involve "because I want one" either implicitly or explicitly. And certainly don't reference the fact that the Dramiel used to have missile slots or whine about having to train guns to fly an uber ship.

Oh, and has an historical lark, this is fun to re-read just to see how many people at the time were proclaiming the ruination of the Machariel.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#52 - 2012-07-26 22:55:55 UTC
Judging by the first page I was the only one who didn't have the words "pirate battlship" censored in the OP. I'd like a missile pirate BS.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

Copine Callmeknau
Dirty Vagrants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#53 - 2012-07-27 01:04:54 UTC
Jonas Land wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Jonas Land wrote:

Some of those pirate frigates can do in excess of 500 dps... You can kill a battleship with them... how can a frigate doing 200 dps compete with that?

If you take 2 pilots, maxed skills on their platform of choice... one in a Hawk, one in a Daredevil... the Hawk doesnt stand a chance. And since SOLO PvP is mainly going to be centered around frigates... Well? Where's the balance at?


You are literally clueless about frig PVP. And really, PVP in general. A few comments:
- A 500 DPS frigate is a paper tiger with almost no range.
- I've seen a battleship downed by way less than 200 DPS. I saw a Sentinel do it once. :)
- I'd say the most likely outcome of two competent pilots in a Hawk/Daredevil is a stalemate. The Daredevil isn't likely to kill the Hawk and the Hawk isn't likely to pin the Daredevil down because of the web bonus.
- I'd say the most likely outcome of two competent pilots in a Hawk / Enyo is a dead Enyo. :)
- Solo PVP happens in whatever ship you happen to be in. I've done solo PVP in everything from noob ships to carriers.

If you're interested in solo PVP, why don't you swing by Amamake? :)

-Liang



You are nothing but a troll looking to argue.

I would like to see your 500dps frigate fit plz

I could do with a laugh

There should be a rather awesome pic here

Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2012-07-27 02:39:14 UTC
Quote:
If you take 2 pilots, maxed skills on their platform of choice... one in a Hawk, one in a Daredevil... the Hawk doesnt stand a chance.



From personal experience I can tell that hawk does stand a chance ... single anci fitted.
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-07-27 03:21:05 UTC
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:
Jonas Land wrote:
la lot of players will agree that missle boats have been COMPLETELY overlooked in the PvP fields.


Rank Ships Kills
1 Drake 308916
2 Tengu 115724

More than the top 10 turret ships combined.


I don't see why you need a pirate one when there are the fleet typhoon, navy raven, navy scorpion, and golem


Fair point. But let's be complete in our examples. The Drake and the Tengu enjoy kill number like that for a lot reasons, none of which have to do with the fact that they are missile boats. Between the sheet number of Caldari players (a **** ton) and the excellence of those particular designed (perhaps a touch OP), the Tengu and Drake are simply popular designs, used in pretty much all areas of the game. From WH to Hi Sec to gangs and huge blobs/fleets, those hulls are everywhere.

The advantages and disadvantages of missiles are pretty well accepted. Excellent range and no straight misses are the strengths. Time to target and damage application on hit are the weaknesses.

That said, the point of the thread was simply that there is not a pirate faction missile boat with the same kinds of enormous damage bonuses that turret based pirate vessels have. This is an indisputable statement.

Golem is not a good example because all Marauders have similar bonuses such that less weapon hardpoints = more damage to make room for tractor/salvager. That's the kit of the Marauder class, not a missile- or turret-centric thing.

Navy faction ships are all generally designed the same - especially at the BS level. Smaller bonsues to damage and/or ROF such that damage is greater than the stock T1 version of said ships, but nowhere near the pure damage bonuses on pirate vessels.

That said, I do not think missiles are in bad shape. They have their value in both PvE and PvP. People who focus on missile training are in no way disadvantaged in any area of the game (except maybe incursions).

In sum, OP's apparent QQ about missiles is not well taken.
Zaraz Zaraz
Zontik Paraphernalia Inc
#56 - 2012-07-27 05:26:58 UTC
Eternal Error wrote:
Faction ships aren't supposed to be similar, they're supposed to reflect the traits of their respective factions.


Thats why Guristas pirate boats are drone boats. Because it reflects the use of drones by Guristas pirates.

Right?
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#57 - 2012-07-27 07:28:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
What the op doesn't seem to understand is that these ships with "HUGE" damage bonuses all have very few actual weapons. The picture changes quite a bit when you look not at the damage bonus, but the effective number of weapons created by that bonus. A ship with a 100% damage bonus and two weapons is still behind a ship with a 25% bonus and four weapons, in terms of damage output.

thhief ghabmoef

Sigras
Conglomo
#58 - 2012-07-27 08:03:06 UTC
again im going to ask if the OP has looked at the caldari navy hookbill

because the whole point of this thread (as pointless as it is) is a complaint that missile ships dont get the same huge bonuses as gun ships even though theyre just as effective . . . (I get it, seeing a +100% bonus looks cool)

but the base argument is wrong, at frigate level 5 the Caldari Navy Hookbill gives a +100% bonus to kinetic missile damage.
Othran
Route One
#59 - 2012-07-27 11:37:02 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
I'd love to see the Succubus and Worm get some rebalancing.


Damn right. I have a Succubus that's been in a hanger since Dominion came out. I'd quite like a reason to use it again.
SB Rico
Sumo Wrestlers
#60 - 2012-07-27 12:40:29 UTC
Sigras wrote:
again im going to ask if the OP has looked at the caldari navy hookbill

because the whole point of this thread (as pointless as it is) is a complaint that missile ships dont get the same huge bonuses as gun ships even though theyre just as effective . . . (I get it, seeing a +100% bonus looks cool)

but the base argument is wrong, at frigate level 5 the Caldari Navy Hookbill gives a +100% bonus to kinetic missile damage.


Guess I am confused too, when did the hookbill become a pirate ship?

Scammers are currently selling killrights on this toon for up to 5mil, if you have paid for this service demand your money back at once.

Killing me should be for free.