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Barge Fairy Tale

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Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#601 - 2012-07-26 19:09:06 UTC
Jake Warbird wrote:
So is this about the new mining barges? How much tears do they hold now?



Several thousands of M3 of delicious stuff, can't finish one pint another is already waiting.

brb
Sarik Olecar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#602 - 2012-07-26 19:09:20 UTC
Jake Warbird wrote:
So is this about the new mining barges? How much tears do they hold now?


Only about ~500m3, since the rest has to be ore...

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Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#603 - 2012-07-26 19:09:55 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Then the answer is the same your ilk has always given to everybody else: adapt or quit.


yeah but at least your mining bots can operate in peace :shobon:

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Drone 16
Holy Horde
#604 - 2012-07-26 19:10:37 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Arvantis Sauril wrote:

I propose a heavy tax on all activity in Hi-Sec. Missions, mining, production, everything. I severely doubt the US gov't and all the powerful corporations in the us would allow me to go mining for gold wherever I wanted somewhere in New Jersey and that if I did find something that I wouldn't immediately be pressured/sued/incarcerated into selling the rights to the land or never going near where I found the gold again. Something needs to sustain these empires and Concord, right? If you want to AFK mine, fine, go ahead, but if you do so in Hi-Sec you should net very little if any profit after huge taxes for doing so in Empire space. It is their asteroid after all.



What happens in real world when one of those pseudo-socialist countries impose the next tax is that capital and big corps move to less stupid countries. See France. See Italy. And more.



In the real world the citizens would complain about the pirates making commodities more expensive and the Navy would take action.

Don't give me the nonsense that since capsuleers are immortal it wouldn't matter what the Navy did either. Some Navy snipers and a head shot every time a ganker showed his face in a station and gankers would be playing Groundhog Day every day.

But we were discussing Eve and not real life...do continue...

It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#605 - 2012-07-26 19:11:15 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
You have instant AFK mining machine - with zero fear of gank.


False, they're not invulnerable and you can still use same mechanics to gank them.


lmao "they can still be ganked guys! you only need 20 tornadoes"

Math is hard.

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Sarik Olecar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#606 - 2012-07-26 19:11:33 UTC
Also, I'd like to think this thread - which has giving many carebears their first taste of tears - will go on to inspire all sorts of crazy shenanigans as they desperately try to feed the new-found addiction...

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#607 - 2012-07-26 19:12:15 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Kyra Yaken wrote:
Wasnt that same as when CCP gave gankers tier3 on silver plate?


tell me when you see a tier 3 BC ganking a hulk


Yesterday in Sirseshin, several times.

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arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#608 - 2012-07-26 19:12:29 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Zagdul wrote:
Gone are the days where EVE is a dangerous place.

I seem to have missed the part when they made all player ships immune to damage.


That won't happen as long as I'm around, btw.

Suicide ganking wasn't designed to be profitable, it's meant to be an option that let's you punish someone else at your expense. The money you paid for a ship to gank with compared to the money lost by your target was completely off and this change should bring that to a better spot. That said, the numbers can still be adjusted.


What about punishing people who fit poorly? This suicide ganking ship:ship ratio is only off because people refuse to change. This is a social problem not a balance problem.


you must be really bored if all you care about is punishing people who fit poorly. people who fit poorly will suffer the consequences on their own in one way or another. it may be less of "people who refuse to change" and more of "people who could care less to change"

i mean do you really not see the error in your point of view? you want to punish people for fitting their ship poorly, which is essentially, someone playing the game how they want to. regardless if you see it as right or wrong. so you want to be the punisher? lol Goons really do need an Eden Vs Goons war, if not for laughs to see them put under pressure but more to give them something to do. too much time on your hands for your own good. One day you will implode on yourselves because the real PvP'rs will get bored and decide that Goons really are easy targets in their own space. And, maybe that is really what needs to be done here.
JamesCLK
#609 - 2012-07-26 19:12:41 UTC
I hope CCP Fozzie (as I understand it he is on the balancing team) wasn't the unfortunate one that made these changes; I love his balls of steel, but he might be biting off more than he can chew?

-- -.-- / -.-. .-.. --- -. . / .. ... / - --- --- / . -..- .--. . -. ... .. ...- . / - --- / ..- -. -.. --- -.-. -.- / ... - --- .--. / .--. .-.. . .- ... . / ... . -. -.. / .... . .-.. .--. / ... - --- .--.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#610 - 2012-07-26 19:13:20 UTC
Arvantis Sauril wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Arvantis Sauril wrote:

I propose a heavy tax on all activity in Hi-Sec. Missions, mining, production, everything. I severely doubt the US gov't and all the powerful corporations in the us would allow me to go mining for gold wherever I wanted somewhere in New Jersey and that if I did find something that I wouldn't immediately be pressured/sued/incarcerated into selling the rights to the land or never going near where I found the gold again. Something needs to sustain these empires and Concord, right? If you want to AFK mine, fine, go ahead, but if you do so in Hi-Sec you should net very little if any profit after huge taxes for doing so in Empire space. It is their asteroid after all.



What happens in real world when one of those pseudo-socialist countries impose the next tax is that capital and big corps move to less stupid countries. See France. See Italy. And more.



Exactly. A capsuleer is supposed to be a demigod in space. If the income generation in hi sec was far less than it is, people would be out in low and null and be forced to interact. Leave Hi-sec for the truly new players or for trading hubs. Limit ship size in Hi sec, I see no reason why these vast NPC empires would allow self obsessed lunatic immortals to fly around in Battleships. The only thing Hi-Sec should retain, imo, as an advantage over Low and Null is in industry production. We need more reasons to interact with one another and more tension over resources. Not more reasons to go hide in our mission rooms and Worm Holes and Asteroid belts feeling 100% safe all the time.



The day every null sec player is not aloud by any means starting by NPC or Alt corporations to have full industrial organisations in high sec, mission corporations, shipping corporations, trading alts, High sec research/invention POS's and more funky stuff, then yep it will be time to change high sec.
But as far as every major null alliance has hundreds/thousands of those in high sec and don't stop crying about high sec they will always be laughed at for not being serious for one second.

brb
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#611 - 2012-07-26 19:13:53 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Yesterday in Sirseshin, several times.


a tornado is a pretty expensive way to kill a hulk

it seems that you're angry because hulks are able to die in hisec???????

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#612 - 2012-07-26 19:14:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
The day every null sec player is not aloud by any means starting by NPC or Alt corporations to have full industrial organisations in high sec, mission corporations, shipping corporations, trading alts, High sec research/invention POS's and more funky stuff, then yep it will be time to change high sec.
But as far as every major null alliance has hundreds/thousands of those in high sec and don't stop crying about high sec they will always be laughed at for not being serious for one second.


"let's punish people for playing in nullsec"

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Jed Bobby
Doomheim
#613 - 2012-07-26 19:15:23 UTC
this thread will be all I need to plea insanity
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#614 - 2012-07-26 19:16:04 UTC
so whats the price of a skiff nowadays?

i wanna make a fleet of battle skiffs... (maybe for null sec bait ship)

can someone punch this into EFT and let me know its stats?


low:
dcu II
nano II

mids:
1 mwd
1 long point
1 shield extender
1 invul

highs:
1 nuet

3 warrior II

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#615 - 2012-07-26 19:18:18 UTC
Just slapping more EHP is not the answer. All that does is make it easier for players to AFK and bot there way through the game. CCP needs to totally look at barges and exhumers and make them work using existing design parameters and tweaking them as need.

Add a little more PU and CPU, and maybe another rig slot. Then make sure that people wanting to make use of these ships understand that they are industrial ships - not ******* armor clad machines of war. That you as the miner have a choice....either you fit the ship to give it armor to protect it - or you give it better yield capabilities. If you choose to neglect the risk and go for yield...you chose to take the risk - you chose.

Make it quite clear the purpose and use of the ships. If players do not want to listen than it it their fault.

This ideal that mining barges are going to have better yield and armor like a cruiser or BS is - BS. CCP is going to make AFK mining and botting surge like never before. The ones this will hurt are the players that do actually stay at their computers and play the game as intended.

This will also have a huge impact on mineral and ore prices - and make mining even more of a chore than it all ready is. There is a solution - just not the way CCP intends to do it.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#616 - 2012-07-26 19:18:56 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


Yet we are presented with those LOL YOU MUST HAVE 32 K EHP OR YOU PLAY WRONG LOL fittings and they use a MAPC. End of MLU.

In the meanwhile I don't recall EVER having had to fit a MLU in any of my other PvP or PvE ships. And I have loads.


You don't fit MLU's into PvP ships. You fit Gyrostabilizers/TE's. And Nanos.

You balance Tank with Yield and Cargo - just as combat ships balance Tank with Speed and Firepower.

Gank ships are effective because they pile everything onto Firepower - to the exclusion of almost everything else, simply because Tank and Speed are useless vs the godlike CONCORD. Combat ships do not get to pick all three (unless they are Minmatar). Blink

When a miner gets to pick all three - its no longer balanced. Except this is worse: you aren't even picking them with mods and rigs - they are being handed to you right off of the factory floor.

My reaction when I find miners learning and 'doing it right' is actually quite positive. It means they are playing the game smart and I respect that.

If they warp out. I don't get mad. I think, 'Great - they were paying attention - good for them."
When I find a Hulk, clad in a DCII, MSEII and Shield Rigs - I don't cry about it - I respect it, and go looking for another target. (and there is ALWAYS another target....)

I just don't understand why as a group, why these 'intelligent' miners are such an extreme minority.

Is it just blind 'Goon hatred?'
Or are these people who lost an Exhumer 3 weeks ago (or 2 years ago in the case of Krixtal Icefluxor) - and rather than learn from it, they just get mad and lose sight of the forest for the trees?
Jed Bobby
Doomheim
#617 - 2012-07-26 19:20:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jed Bobby
this game seems pretty AFK friendly in lots of aspects.

why complain? i wonder how many people still play eve because of the fact that they can progress yet do not have to glue their face to the screen the entire time.



edit: why focus on other people so much lol
do they really matter? are they hurting you THAT badly that you must cry all day and debate.
isn't one of EVE's big selling points is that is has "one of the most mature gaming communities"
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#618 - 2012-07-26 19:21:01 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:
Just slapping more EHP is not the answer. All that does is make it easier for players to AFK and bot there way through the game. CCP needs to totally look at barges and exhumers and make them work using existing design parameters and tweaking them as need.

Add a little more PU and CPU, and maybe another rig slot. Then make sure that people wanting to make use of these ships understand that they are industrial ships - not ******* armor clad machines of war. That you as the miner have a choice....either you fit the ship to give it armor to protect it - or you give it better yield capabilities. If you choose to neglect the risk and go for yield...you chose to take the risk - you chose.

Make it quite clear the purpose and use of the ships. If players do not want to listen than it it their fault.

This ideal that mining barges are going to have better yield and armor like a cruiser or BS is - BS. CCP is going to make AFK mining and botting surge like never before. The ones this will hurt are the players that do actually stay at their computers and play the game as intended.

This will also have a huge impact on mineral and ore prices - and make mining even more of a chore than it all ready is. There is a solution - just not the way CCP intends to do it.


sandbox...

its obvious you have never been in a fleet of itty v... we once got a carrier to SD due to our tactics...

eveyship in eve is pvp

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#619 - 2012-07-26 19:22:35 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Outside hi sec is where Though Guys PvP is at.
…and the profit is in highsec. So that's hardly relevant, now is it?


Not miners (or anyone else's) problem you can't find profit outside killing chinkens in hi sec.

I heard some 0.0 alliances like PL and Goons found a secret way to make profits even in the desperate slums of 0.0 sec.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Arvantis Sauril
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#620 - 2012-07-26 19:23:31 UTC
Drone 16 wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Arvantis Sauril wrote:

I propose a heavy tax on all activity in Hi-Sec. Missions, mining, production, everything. I severely doubt the US gov't and all the powerful corporations in the us would allow me to go mining for gold wherever I wanted somewhere in New Jersey and that if I did find something that I wouldn't immediately be pressured/sued/incarcerated into selling the rights to the land or never going near where I found the gold again. Something needs to sustain these empires and Concord, right? If you want to AFK mine, fine, go ahead, but if you do so in Hi-Sec you should net very little if any profit after huge taxes for doing so in Empire space. It is their asteroid after all.



What happens in real world when one of those pseudo-socialist countries impose the next tax is that capital and big corps move to less stupid countries. See France. See Italy. And more.



In the real world the citizens would complain about the pirates making commodities more expensive and the Navy would take action.

Don't give me the nonsense that since capsuleers are immortal it wouldn't matter what the Navy did either. Some Navy snipers and a head shot every time a ganker showed his face in a station and gankers would be playing Groundhog Day every day.

But we were discussing Eve and not real life...do continue...




Umm...piracy happens everyday. Seizure of physical goods. Kidnapping. These things are very real and as is evidenced by the real world, they are nigh impossible to stop when you consider the size of the oceans. These things also occur on land, everyday. Navy ships can only be in so many places at one time. Space is infinitely vaster.

If a player wants near instant and swift protection and justice from would be pirates and gankers, that should come at a COST. Not be free of charge, included with subscription, please go about your business sir. If there was some "Platinum Concord Protection Plan" bought and sold in Jita, then that's one thing. But there isn't.