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Barge Fairy Tale

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Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#521 - 2012-07-26 17:49:42 UTC
creative.. wrong and twisted but creative.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#522 - 2012-07-26 17:49:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Hicksimus wrote:
Edit: Max AFK'ness is moon mining.
It's fairly impressive how much flying back and forth is required for something that's supposedly AFK.

hungrymanbreakfast wrote:
Lots. 2 nados take down a max tank hulk kiddo.
No, they really don't, unless by “max tank” you mean “less tank than it can have”.

Quote:
Also notice how max tank hulks need max tanking skills?
Yes. That's generally good practice to have if you intend to undock. As luck would have it, those skills are very cheap and quick to get. Like everyone else, someone who flies a BC or BS will get them too in short order to get the most out of their ships.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#523 - 2012-07-26 17:50:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
I don't know. You should ask from Ishtar pilots because it's more afk friendly than Pilgrim.


an ishtar that isn't fit for passive shield regen will get murdered with one volley of EMP/Fusion L

next dumb comparison between a mining ship and a combat ship, please

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#524 - 2012-07-26 17:50:37 UTC
Makari Aeron wrote:

My reasoning is this:
1. so much whining about getting ganked by CONCORD and not making a profit
2. so much whining about miners having too much tank

Solution:
Don't gank in hi-sec for profit. Get out of your comfort zones and go to lo-sec and/or 0.0 where you don't get blown up by CONCORD and you can make a profit without dying if you're awesome enough. Higher risk, higher reward.


Oh noes! That would require to clear that horrific prompt that warns the though hi sec PvPer is about to stepping out of hi sec!

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Yimodo
Emphebion Emperium
#525 - 2012-07-26 17:50:52 UTC
Even more fun look at the corp name of the guy who made the post.... het is providing Tears (how ever they are his own this time)

ISN - Incursion Shiny Network      Public channel: ISN Secondary
Makari Aeron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#526 - 2012-07-26 17:55:29 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Makari Aeron wrote:

My reasoning is this:
1. so much whining about getting ganked by CONCORD and not making a profit
2. so much whining about miners having too much tank

Solution:
Don't gank in hi-sec for profit. Get out of your comfort zones and go to lo-sec and/or 0.0 where you don't get blown up by CONCORD and you can make a profit without dying if you're awesome enough. Higher risk, higher reward.


Oh noes! That would require to clear that horrific prompt that warns the though hi sec PvPer is about to stepping out of hi sec!


My point exactly.

CCP RedDawn: Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty.

CCP Goliath: I often believe that the best way to get something done is to shout at the person trying to help you. http://goo.gl/PKGDP
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#527 - 2012-07-26 17:55:30 UTC
Makari Aeron wrote:

My reasoning is this:
1. so much whining about getting ganked by CONCORD and not making a profit
2. so much whining about miners having too much tank

Solution:
Don't gank in hi-sec for profit.
Problem: highsec is where the profitable targets are. Moving outside of highsec means more risk for less reward.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#528 - 2012-07-26 17:57:32 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Makari Aeron wrote:

My reasoning is this:
1. so much whining about getting ganked by CONCORD and not making a profit
2. so much whining about miners having too much tank

Solution:
Don't gank in hi-sec for profit.
Problem: highsec is where the profitable targets are. Moving outside of highsec means more risk for less reward.


Is there a problem?
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#529 - 2012-07-26 17:57:42 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
I'm saying they don't need a tank buff because they're fine as they are.


Clearly they aren't fine as they are or CCP wouldn't be devoting their time to re-balancing them. I know, I know, you and your ilk are far better equipped to determine what CCP should be devoting their time to than the people who actually run the company, but you're just regurgitating the same tired rhetoric over and over at this point. Don't you get tired of being wrong all the time?



Wow remember Incarna just because CCP does something doesn't mean its the right thing to do.


just because your leader has a hardon for killing miners to increase his empires profitability, and is willing to pay random people to carry out his bidding, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

BTW There is a whole thread of people who diasgree with you about incarna. If you care to read it, last i checked it was very very long. might want to put on a pot of coffee and eat some popcorn.

But back on topic, there are a lot of people who are happy about these barge changes. Let me put something into perspective, if you spent all this time training to fly a BS and the best one required BS 5 then you realized for a few more hours you could fly a Marauder, would you fly the other ships if the Marauder did the job better for a few more hours and higher price tag? Especially if it virtually let you run L4 missions with nearly no effort or challenge? ....... sure you would
Sarik Olecar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#530 - 2012-07-26 17:57:54 UTC
I think the biggest problem with this argument is the assumption that mining profits will plummet and be bots will run rampant. The truth is though that hulkaggeddons impact on the mineral market is negligible - even more so since everyone got bored of it. Max yield isn't increasing so the only thing that might drive prices down is more people deciding they wanna start mining. Ganking just effects too few people to really be a factor, whether bot or human.

Honestly, all this change will do is gives players more options. A large portion of them will still fit max yield no tank hulks and probably not even realize anything was buffed. (I mean have you seen the rage in S&I from that guy who thinks this is somehow a nerf to hulks?) The rest of the players however will see the value in the increased tank/convenience and switch out, probably decreasing the total aggregate yield of all miners, realizing that a hulk is better saved for mining ops with friends/alts.

Funny how I always thought the goonies 'exploited' (whether actual or perceived) game mechanics in an attempt to force the developers to fix them, but now that CCP sees that mining ships do in fact need an ehp buff, it's tears time. Unless of course that's just a guise for the dicketry, and they actually are only doing it because techs so broken they get stupidspacerich off it. But I know they would never lie...

So enough with the strawmen guys, this buffs not going to lead to super-passive-afk-no-risk-billion-isk-per-hour-happy-carebea-rfunland-hisec-time-end-of-1337pvp. Stupid miners will still die, and smart miners get the ability to not have to stare at they're strips cycling and spam dscan every five seconds (And yes, your stupid if you think anyone should actually do that...)

Hows my posting? Call 1-800-747-7633 to leave feedback.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#531 - 2012-07-26 18:00:04 UTC
Sarik Olecar wrote:
I think the biggest problem with this argument is the assumption that mining profits will plummet and be bots will run rampant. The truth is though that hulkaggeddons impact on the mineral market is negligible - even more so since everyone got bored of it. Max yield isn't increasing so the only thing that might drive prices down is more people deciding they wanna start mining. Ganking just effects too few people to really be a factor, whether bot or human.


so since hulkageddon is irrelevant why should mining barges have their HP buffed?

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Hicksimus
Torgue
#532 - 2012-07-26 18:00:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Hicksimus wrote:
Edit: Max AFK'ness is moon mining.
It's fairly impressive how much flying back and forth is required for something that's supposedly AFK.



I have to be logged in to mine, I don't have to be logged in to moon mine. My mining also requires the transport of many more m3 with much higher frequency. But I don't expect you to get it because you didn't understand why trying to use a single window UI with many windows didn't work.

Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you? Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#533 - 2012-07-26 18:01:07 UTC
gfldex wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Suicide ganking wasn't designed to be profitable, it's meant to be an option that let's you punish someone else at your expense. The money you paid for a ship to gank with compared to the money lost by your target was completely off and this change should bring that to a better spot. That said, the numbers can still be adjusted.


How do you plan to scale the HP of a freighter with the value of it's cargo? If you don't plan to do that then please tell me why miners are immune from profit seeking highsec pirates but haulers are not.

I'm in your forumz asking rhetorical questions.


How much do you earn when you kill a freighter with 8 ice blocks inside? Scale that amount down by a factor of freigther cost / mining ship cost and you have a ballpark amount telling how much a ganker should make.

Wait, that amount is negligible because the only freigthers worth ganking are those with valuable cargo? Too bad, the same principle applies to other ships too.
You don't gank a meta 4 fitted mission Raven right? It has to be either pimped and / or hold some very valuable stuff. Exhumers that have T1 fittings should be as unprofitable to gank as a meta 4 fitted Raven is.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#534 - 2012-07-26 18:01:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Is there a problem?
Yes. His proposed solution is counter-productive.

Hicksimus wrote:
I have to be logged in to mine, I don't have to be logged in to moon mine.
If you don't log in, you won't get much of any value from the moon.

Quote:
But I don't expect you to get it because you didn't understand why trying to use a single window UI with many windows didn't work.
What on earth are you on about. A single-window UI can't have many windows, or it won't be a single-window UI, now is it?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#535 - 2012-07-26 18:02:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Makari Aeron wrote:

My reasoning is this:
1. so much whining about getting ganked by CONCORD and not making a profit
2. so much whining about miners having too much tank

Solution:
Don't gank in hi-sec for profit.
Problem: highsec is where the profitable targets are. Moving outside of highsec means more risk for less reward.


Outside hi sec is where Though Guys PvP is at.

Embrace what you pay your Though Guys sub for.

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arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#536 - 2012-07-26 18:04:12 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
I would like to know where it is written that you have to make money ganking a miner?
I imagine after this change CCP is telling all of you the same thing.
In fact reading between the lines of dev speak it seems it was never intended to be able to make isk while ganking miners.

Note none of these new barges are gank proof. So quite your whinning and adapt.
Players can still effect their own economies of scale but they just can not do it as a career. Unless....


The only reason Ganking Hulks is profitable is the fact that Miners are too lazy to tank their ships.

Now, they won't have to do anything to do so.

A properly fit Hulk cannot be profitably ganked.


would ganking Hulks be profitable at all if the people who have a monopoly on building them weren't offering you 10M to blow one up? would you do it if there was no bounty on them?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#537 - 2012-07-26 18:04:17 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Outside hi sec is where Though Guys PvP is at.
…and the profit is in highsec. So that's hardly relevant, now is it?
hungrymanbreakfast
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#538 - 2012-07-26 18:04:36 UTC  |  Edited by: hungrymanbreakfast
Richard Desturned wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
I don't know. You should ask from Ishtar pilots because it's more afk friendly than Pilgrim.


an ishtar that isn't fit for passive shield regen will get murdered with one volley of EMP/Fusion L

next dumb comparison between a mining ship and a combat ship, please


The AFK domi is a perfect example. More tank than a crappy ishtar and yes it can withstand a bs gank. Also left alone since it only costs ~100 mil to make and also makes more isk/hr than any hulk
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#539 - 2012-07-26 18:05:02 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Sarik Olecar wrote:
I think the biggest problem with this argument is the assumption that mining profits will plummet and be bots will run rampant. The truth is though that hulkaggeddons impact on the mineral market is negligible - even more so since everyone got bored of it. Max yield isn't increasing so the only thing that might drive prices down is more people deciding they wanna start mining. Ganking just effects too few people to really be a factor, whether bot or human.


so since hulkageddon is irrelevant why should mining barges have their HP buffed?


hahaha get owned
Blawrf McTaggart
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#540 - 2012-07-26 18:05:26 UTC
goon NOOBs