These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Science & Industry

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Planetary Scaling - Methodology & Advice
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Th3 Ladyship
Clogwork Orange
Rote Works
#1 - 2012-07-25 10:08:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Th3 Ladyship
What's up again S&I forums? It's me, the budding industrialist who knows nothing! I bet your happy to see me again but enough about me let's talk about you! Not specifically you but what you know and how you apply your knowledge to Planetary Interaction and the such.

So I FINALLY decided to get some PI sorted out on my account and started up a small Construction Blocks producing facility which is working all fine and dandy with plenty of buffers and such as to not waste any materials and various things like that. (Using this method)

Now while this is all fine I was wondering to what extent I could logically expand on this facility to make higher up processed materials. So I have a few questions:

(For argument's sake lets assume that if it was needed, I could sub in my own POCOs instead of using the IB ones. Also lets assume that if needed it could be located in WH space. Lets also assume I could be sitting at the planet once every 15 minutes if it was at all required.)

1. What methodology do you apply when working with your Planets? Do you have a large amount of extraction planets and then one factory facility?

2. Do you make anything higher than P2 on a single planet (without importing stuff)? If so what methodology do you apply to create a system where you can extract 4 different types (I believe that is what is required for a P3 on a single planet)

3. For the sake of ease, is it just fine to stay making a load of P2 materials (like my Construction Blocks example) without getting too bogged down by it but atleast making it somewhat worthwhile (isk wise)

As always I appreciate any feedback/constructive responses and I <3 you.
Thanks.

.
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#2 - 2012-07-25 10:24:59 UTC
Its hihly dependant on number of your planets and time you want to invest.

I have 30 planets each is making some T2 product, i do no importing, i reset them every day, extract products and sell them once a week for about 200 mil. Takes 15min a day + 1hour a week for hauling. Advantage is that i can take a week vacation and let my planets work on longer cycle without loosing much production. Investing more time would be wasteful and anomaly ratting would be much more profitable.
Th3 Ladyship
Clogwork Orange
Rote Works
#3 - 2012-07-25 10:26:32 UTC
Oska Rus wrote:
I have 30 planets each is making some T2 product, i do no importing, i reset them every day.


Would you mind laying out some of the layouts of your planets? In terms of how your making higher up products without importing anything?

.
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#4 - 2012-07-26 10:02:06 UTC
Pretty simple stuff like for example: Strom planet (me like those) two extractors each with 3 or 4 heads. One extractor for ionic solutions one for suspended plasma, 3 basic factories for electrolytes, 3 basic factories for plasmoids, 3 advanced factories for rocket fuel. Everithing linked through spaceport. Note this is nullsec setup, hisec mining yields will be not enough to feed those factories. This should work with lvl 4 planetary skills.

I believe T3s can be made on single planet but that would require some everydays tweaking and i am too lazy for that.

In general I made research which T2s can be produced on which planets without importing then found most profitable planets and set up PI facilities there.
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#5 - 2012-07-26 12:45:36 UTC
It all depends on how much time you are willing to spend on your planets.

Doing a bunch of P0 > P1 extractor planets and combining the materials onto a single factory planet to bring them up to P2 or P3 levels is much more efficient, but requires more hauling.

Having single-planet P2 productions are MUCH less upkeep in terms of hauling, but you waste some of the extraction potential of each planet with the extra ECU and P2 factories.

I have only one account, but my main and both alts all have PI skills. I coordinate all 15 of my colonies and trade materials back and forth between characters (Via our corp's rented office) to supply factories as needed.

The only hard and fast rule I can give you is: Never export P0s. It is almost never worth it from both a logistics and tax perspective.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

RADTrooper
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-07-26 16:53:58 UTC
My PI is set up with 4 T0->T1 harvesting planets in low sec and one T1->T4 factory planet in high sec. It makes decent money, but there is about a half hour worth of hauling to do every day or so. I do have to import some of the cheaper T0 materials, but that could be fixed if I wanted to take the time to have a 6th planet.

The harvesting planets have 6 basic factories and as many extractor heads as I can fit; the factory planet has 4 spaceports for storage, each holding the T1-3 items need by the other factories. At peak performance, I can dish out 12 T4 items a day, less if I get a little behind in moving goods to/from the CO or don't feel like hauling that day.

My advice is to do your research if you want to do your setup like this. And I don't mean to find a T3 or T4 product that sells well and make it. Find a group of planets that are closer together so you don't have to haul so far, make sure that your factory planet is near a system you frequently visit so you can keep its factories well supplied and put your factories on a planet where the tax is the lowest - my best option was in high sec.

Having your own POCO will help a lot, especially if you can get it on your factory planet. The tax on T0 and T1 materials is minimal, and usually amounts to a few thousand off your finished product. The tax on T3 and T4 can be in the hundreds of thousands and suck out a good portion of your profits.
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#7 - 2012-07-26 18:27:15 UTC
You have your factory in high? Unless your low sec planets are at 10% tax or higher, move your factory to low! (And if your low sec harvesting planets are 10% + tax, I'd say stick to high sec)

One of the biggest benefits to having access to a low/no tax POCO is factory planets. Yes, higher extraction rates and lower taxes are all well and good, but a lower tax rate really amplifies its benefit when operating factory planets.


Also: Regardless if you do PI in high, low, null or WH; having all your colonies close to each other is key. All in the same system is ideal, but all within 1 jump of each other is good as well. This cuts down on the RL time spent hauling between planets and increases your flexibility.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Sola Mercury
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-07-26 19:02:37 UTC
In 0-tax enviroments I setup my P2 producing planets in pairs.
That is e.g. using two barren planets to produce mech parts.
Each of these planets extracts one P0, builds its P1 and builds mech parts, while importing the surplus P1 production of the other planet using a separate silo.

This is usefull because it frees the resources of a second ECU.

So it goes like this:
Planet A
1 ECU - 10 heads
enough basic factories to process the resources. In w-space 8 wil do.
4 Avanced factories producing P2
one Silo linked to spaceport for expedited transfer of P1 not produced locally.

For extra revenue in resources heavy enviroment, dont produce the cheep P1, buy it instead and sell the surplus more valuable P1.
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#9 - 2012-07-26 20:00:32 UTC
Alternatively, in more resource-modest planets, if you have good Planetology skills (Advanced Planetology III or higher) you can do "Nugget Chasing"

1 ECU, 10 heads. When a big hot-spot appears, move your ECU to harvest it...even if that is halfway across the planet. Unless you are working with a Gas planet, you'll generally have enough powergrid left for P1 processors to handle the material. This works best for rarer materials like Felsic Magma, Autotrophs, Reactive Gas, and such.

It saves you the time and money from having to uproot your P1 hub and still lets you maintain a good extraction rate.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-07-27 06:53:30 UTC
Th3 Ladyship wrote:

1. What methodology do you apply when working with your Planets? Do you have a large amount of extraction planets and then one factory facility?.


Don't extract what you want, extract what has the highest yield. Don't pick a planet and say "I'm going to only make construction blocks on this planet". You will be passing up materials that may give higher yields over materials that have almost no yield some days. Instead checkout your planet each day, find the highest yielding material (looking for hot spots) and extract that. You will go from 12k-24k per hour to 24k-36k hourly yields.

Single planet extractions, with 1 factory planet every 5 planets. P1 has best export/import tax rates/value. This also gives you many more options whenn it comes to a finished product.


Th3 Ladyship wrote:

2. Do you make anything higher than P2 on a single planet (without importing stuff)? If so what methodology do you apply to create a system where you can extract 4 different types (I believe that is what is required for a P3 on a single planet).

always make P1. If a planet just works out perfecty that making p2 is an option while not affecting daily yields then go with it. Single planet P3's are not profitable at all in highsec, even if you are importing a p2 the additional imports/exports just ruin any value that could be gained.


Th3 Ladyship wrote:

3. For the sake of ease, is it just fine to stay making a load of P2 materials (like my Construction Blocks example) without getting too bogged down by it but atleast making it somewhat worthwhile (isk wise).

If its easy and you prefer ease over yield and thats fine with you then yeah, do it...

Th3 Ladyship wrote:

As always I appreciate any feedback/constructive responses and I <3 you.
Thanks.


With PI you have to choose between ease of use or making descent isk. If you don't want to spent alot of time hauling, planning, setting up planets every day, managing factories, dealing with buy orders, buying a few billion isk in bpo's then you'll make some OK isk selling P1 and P2 goods. Making and using a factory planet is only really useful if you're willing to invest a good chunk of time into PI each day.
LordAssasin
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#11 - 2012-07-27 14:22:27 UTC
I've been doing a lot of Pi...so basically this is it: excel, excel, excel:)
But other than that...things to have in sight: how much you are extracting 1.7 mils per 2 day/? ok this will only feed non stop 5 basic industry..if you put like 10 on an elite planet(skills in V) well you will chew way faster than you need to...so why not put 4 basic industry, with 10 head extractor....with 5 advance industry and 2 launch pads. Lets see why...cos a 10 head extractor is much more ok than a 4 head plus a 4 head on on the same planet...
so your planet is extracting aq---and making water...ok but on another planet you extract 2.2 mils basic met--->and produce reactive metal....so you have on these 2 planets 2 basic ingredient for water cooled CPU....and now you extract with 10 head...and you maximize your yeald ...only thing is to take some water 20k per 2 day...and put in the next planet and from that plane you take some reactive metal and you take it to the first planet.
Lets see the advantage...1 the moast important is mobility...meaning that if the hot spot is gone...you destroy only the extractor not all the chain...but if you put 2--4 day extract is ok is preaty stable....
second 2) you get 20 extractor +10 basic + 10 advance and 4 lunch pad...vs 16 extractor(8x2 plus long link) and basic ind or more...but no advance so no p2 production...see where im heading with this?
Now all my 34 planets (2 main x 5 and 4 alt x 6) are producers....this mostly buys me time...buffer...cos i do not move nothing to it unless my input is gone...and since we have 35 k space thx CCP, is awsome....like 1 every 5 days...1 h:) so is super nice...and onest my money realy comes from the fact that i export p4 for free:) that alone is only 1 bil min:) so there you have it.
this is refining at is best...but all this are in excel. and make it yourself so you can understand...
and there is another approach...top to bottom...i want 2 bils per month...ok what do i need? 2 bils /30 = 66 mils /day =66 /24 =2.7 mils per h:) and now you have how much you have to produce...dive by the cost of one unit and how much it takes to make one...and the last factor ...that i do not like making p2 or p3 any more....is moving part.....so 1 100 m3 turns in a a lot more when you see how much you needed for 1 unit. 6 x 3 x 6 =108 m3...but this is only at the first lvl...it is much more obtaining from p0...imagine you make form 12 mil m3 p0 to 30400 p1 ...but again time is what you gain...is the moast valuble...
sry guis have to go have a great weekend...and hope this helped...if not mail me ingame and we talk more. fly safe...
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#12 - 2012-07-27 14:59:05 UTC
Also key to PI is putting your structures close together to minimize wasted CPU/Powergrid.


The exact opposite is true when TALKING about PI, in which spaces and paragraph breaks are welcome and help improve reception of your message.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.