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Time to remove missions from FW
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Lexmana
#1 - 2012-07-26 10:22:10 UTC
Makes sense to me.
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#2 - 2012-07-26 10:25:48 UTC
No.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
Lexmana
#3 - 2012-07-26 11:39:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
There are better ways to reward LP in FW than for farming missions in SBs. We already have killing enemies and taking sov (plexing). But there are other possibilities: LP could be rewarded for blockading gates or locking down systems. And why not give LP for killing opposing militias faction navy ships in highsec when/if there are no plex left to run in lowsec?
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#4 - 2012-07-26 12:57:49 UTC
Mission don't need to be removed, they need to only spawn in enemy space.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#5 - 2012-07-26 13:01:21 UTC
OP has a convincing argument.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#6 - 2012-07-26 13:22:21 UTC  |  Edited by: IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
sYnc Vir wrote:
Mission don't need to be removed, they need to only spawn in enemy space.


Missions already earn too much ISK, this would take hourly ISK from completely silly to triage.

Granted you'd need a huge stack of bombers as no doubt you'd lose them pretty fast, but the potential ISK would be game-breaking.


Back on topic this though would mean almost all LP generated would come from either farming vulnerable systems or turning the warzones into some kind of seesaw where each sides pushes T5 back and forth to generate LP. Both cases hardly seem any better than the status quo.

I think the wider FW mechanics are what are currently making L4s broken, not the missions themselves. An all T3 LP store as well as better balancing between the race's missions could restore missions to sensible levels without having to remove them.
Thomas Kreshant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-07-26 13:37:28 UTC
I'd rather missions were redone so rather than simply handing out ISK they were completely over hauled to provide benefits to the warzone in some way.

Like raid an enemy high sec system and bring back an item that affects the systems that we hold and have upgraded to provide some boost/bonus to moon mining/industry etc and generally improve the places were we live.
jjohnpaul xvii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-07-26 14:03:35 UTC  |  Edited by: jjohnpaul xvii
Not going to be at all popular with peeps......but......I 100% agree with OP.

Probably the most sensible FW suggestion i have read in weeks.

i) Delete missions.
ii) (IMHO) Crank up LP for Pew-pew. (With one eye on them troublesome exploiterz...)

Profit? (or not).


No tinkering. No ''rejig missions so that you have to go into enemy hi sec and return a golden statue that has been buried in a hidden space-temple but when you lift the statue and try and replace it with a bag of space-sand a MASSIVE space-boulder comes tumbling after you and you only just escape and grab your space-hat on the way out and that somehow gives your FW side some LP'' crap. No wasting Devs time. Delete the poxy things.

PvE'ers.....Hi Sec is >>>>>>>>>>>>>

Fanks.x



Edit: Spellign
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#9 - 2012-07-26 15:21:28 UTC
I think if we removed missions then the side that is winning - say the minmatar - would be completely cut off from making new isk. I'm not necessarilly saying this is good or bad. But I do think this will lead to the side that is winning at the time whining for lp for defensive plexing. If that happened then we would indeed have a very lame null sec farming mechanic in faction war. So I am leery of the direction this is heading.

Missions right now make lp but they don't help with the sovereignty. Because they don't help with sov it helps the side that is currently down get back in the game. I think these are important yet nuanced considerations in how ccp put this all together.

That said ccp did say that missions should not pay more than plexing. But they do. Plus if ccp makes changes to plexing (which would prevent ninja plexing in gunnless ships) such as timer countdown if you get run off, notifications of plexes getting attacked and requirements to kill all npcs, this disparaty in favor of missions will be even greater.

So I think the amount of lp you make from missions should be nerfed. I would throw out a figure of somewhere between a one third to one half reduction in the amount of lp.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Imustbecomfused
Illicit Expo
#10 - 2012-07-26 15:22:24 UTC
I like my 200 mil an hour isk making strategy though for FW missions... Dont take them away! Why does everyone run the missions in SB's? that cloak make you feel safe? Moar Tears? Tissue anyone?
Thomas Kreshant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-07-26 15:28:17 UTC
jjohnpaul xvii wrote:
Not going to be at all popular with peeps......but......I 100% agree with OP.

Probably the most sensible FW suggestion i have read in weeks.

i) Delete missions.
ii) (IMHO) Crank up LP for Pew-pew. (With one eye on them troublesome exploiterz...)

Profit? (or not).


No tinkering. No ''rejig missions so that you have to go into enemy hi sec and return a golden statue that has been buried in a hidden space-temple but when you lift the statue and try and replace it with a bag of space-sand a MASSIVE space-boulder comes tumbling after you and you only just escape and grab your space-hat on the way out and that somehow gives your FW side some LP'' crap. No wasting Devs time. Delete the poxy things.

PvE'ers.....Hi Sec is >>>>>>>>>>>>>

Fanks.x



Edit: Spellign



lol well if you're going down the PVE'ers.... Hi Sec is that way route..

Remove LP, Missions etc from FW completely as being paid to shoot people is just crap, I don't see the low sec pirates being paid ISK/LP for shooting people coming through gates or while ratting and I don't see 0.0 people getting paid ISK for everyone they shoot in fleet fiights. Want to make money do it from loot drops, ratting, traditional l4/l5 missions etc.

No need for FW to be a special snowflake, FW just for the fun fights and to shout Amarr Victor etc like a RP nerd.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#12 - 2012-07-26 15:35:34 UTC
Cerain won't like my suggestion but I'd trade no LP for missions in exchange for limits defensive plex LP. A faction FW seesaw won't work unless there is some LP scarcity and hard decisions to go along with it.

Missions can be for isk and standings only. At the very least have an off button for them. If I go into an enemy's mission and am uncontested for three minute, he fails it.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#13 - 2012-07-26 15:45:47 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Cerain won't like my suggestion but I'd trade no LP for missions in exchange for limits defensive plex LP. A faction FW seesaw won't work unless there is some LP scarcity and hard decisions to go along with it.




The see saw works only works when the activity that the winning side does to get lp does not also solidify thier sov advantage. That is because missions don't effect sov and its the only way to get lp for the winning side so it yields a possible see saw effect. Taking away lp from missions in exchange for giving lp for defensive plexing just ruins the see saw that ccp built into the game.

There would be no hard decsions either. If they do away with missions or lp for missions and give lp for defensive plexing the decisions become easy. Orbit buttons to farm systems that your enemy can't even dock in. Its so sov null sec its sickening. Next we will hear complaints that wts are afk cloaking in enemy systems and that is making them afraid to farm their defensive plexing.

Now there is a hard decision for minmatar. Do they want to spend time for no lp doing defensive plexing so they can continue to have a valauble lp? If they don't and they only do missions then the other side will gain sov.

This see saw is built in the game now. Getting rid of missions and giving lp for dplexing just ruins it.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#14 - 2012-07-26 15:56:13 UTC
Remove tech moons. Better yet, allow cynojammers in low sec so that afk alliances will actually have to put some effort into defending them. It's time.
Lexmana
#15 - 2012-07-26 15:58:25 UTC
Cearain wrote:
[The see saw works only works when the activity that the winning side does to get lp does not also solidify thier sov advantage.

Good in theory. But in practice sov is solidified by all the farming alts that have more incentive to run missions for the enemy at T4-T5 than oplexing their own militias warzone control.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#16 - 2012-07-26 16:00:10 UTC
On the other side of the coin you can print LP like magic from missions and spike upgrades and the LP store at a whim. Pay Caldari plexes in Gallente LP, lose mission LP, and you have a truly finite supply. Defensive LP can be designed so that it is limited to contested systems as well as the size of the payout.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#17 - 2012-07-26 16:04:21 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
At the very least have an off button for them. If I go into an enemy's mission and am uncontested for three minute, he fails it.

BTW, something like this is the real solution to the "FW mission problem".
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#18 - 2012-07-26 16:17:39 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Cearain wrote:
[The see saw works only works when the activity that the winning side does to get lp does not also solidify thier sov advantage.

Good in theory. But in practice sov is solidified by all the farming alts that have more incentive to run missions for the enemy at T4-T5 than oplexing their own militias warzone control.


Running the missions themselves doesn't actually solidify the sov at all. If they gave lp for defensive plexing it would.

I do admit I have an alt running missions for tribal liberation. But that is no different than if I had an alt running missions in high sec for boundless creations. Actually I have to spend less time running them for tribal so I have more time to plex for amarr with my main.

But running missions too long will make you want to gouge your eyes out. I want to pvp as well. That is when I hop on eve and do plexes with my main. Now when I do plexes I am also getting amarr lp. As that amarr lp builds I am more and more interested in seeing amarr hit tier 5. (although I admit I don't really care if they hit tier 3 or tier 4)

What should happen and I think what will happen (as players start to understand these mechanics and ccp fine tunes the plexing mechanics preventing ninja plexing balancing npcs etc) is that the winning side will simply try to hold onto sov as long as they can by pvping offensive plexers. Yes they will recognize they won't hold it forever but the longer they hold it the more isk they can make with their mains. The sides will continue to flip flop to tier 5 over time. But there will always be allot of fighting in the plexes.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#19 - 2012-07-26 16:20:34 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
At the very least have an off button for them. If I go into an enemy's mission and am uncontested for three minute, he fails it.

BTW, something like this is the real solution to the "FW mission problem".



Or they could just do what they said would, and make it so you get more lp from plexing than you do from missions.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#20 - 2012-07-26 16:26:30 UTC
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
At the very least have an off button for them. If I go into an enemy's mission and am uncontested for three minute, he fails it.

BTW, something like this is the real solution to the "FW mission problem".

Or they could just do what they said would, and make it so you get more lp from plexing than you do from missions.

I think this is due to the nature of the LP payouts which scale exponentially while plexing payouts scale linearly. L1 though L3 missions...... Run plexes instead. L4 missions have better payouts than L4 plexes. The "more fun" option is to give people the ability to grief mission runners.
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