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Barge Fairy Tale

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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#381 - 2012-07-26 15:02:32 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
We all know how terribly this is going to boil over. I wonder whose idea it was at CCP to do this. One thing's for sure, they ****** up pretty royally here.

Isn't it funny how CCP Soundwave stopped posting in this thread as soon as people started calling him out on his bullshit? "Suicide ganking wasn't meant to be profitable." Yeah, because that's TOTALLY what the issue is about, and not, you know, CCP coddling highsec carebears who don't give a **** about what this game is really supposed to be about and instead think that they are entitled to some blanket of protection.

Well they got that blanket. I can't wait until the hordes of miners come onto the forums and complain that they don't bother mining anymore because ore and mineral prices have dropped so much.

CCP Soundwave: Slowly turning EVE highsec into a risk free environment.


Are you truly that blind to all the changes that Soundwave has made in this game that favour the griefer?
This dev came from goons. He may still be goons, no way of telling.

So now he is feeling some pressure from above to even things up a bit, and you are giving him a hard time????
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#382 - 2012-07-26 15:02:44 UTC
Honestly the new mining barges seem pretty reasonable compared to their cost, at least for the T2. 250k EHP Skiffs are pretty lulzy, but so are 250k EHP Damnations.

MalcPrediction™: In 6 months time, exhumers will still be dying in hi-sec and people will still be crying about it.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#383 - 2012-07-26 15:02:47 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
no, you fit your ship to do missions as efficiently as possible. that's the same thing as fitting to mine as efficiently as possible.

i have no problem with hulkaggedon, if you want to gank me i think you're perfectly entitled to do so; provided you actually have to put some effort in to it and not just use ships costing less than the contents of my jetcan. the tears from the gankers about this buff is the fact that they're no longer able to do it in throwaway ships and have to put some kind of investment in to ******* up some one's day. hard life isn't it?


So you are happy that CCP are effectively throwing ship balance out of the window to 'protect' hisec miners?

Of course, i shouldnt really expect people to care about game balance when you just chew on rocks for a living

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#384 - 2012-07-26 15:03:19 UTC
Dave stark wrote:

if you're time limited; bring bigger guns.

My point is the argument "it kills it too quickly" is nonsensical. It's highsec: any kill must happen fast or it doesn't happen, so you can't argue it 'died too fast'. You can only argue it shouldn't have died.
Henry Kaine
Royal Amarr Institute
#385 - 2012-07-26 15:03:30 UTC
This is truth, spoken quite well I might add.
Dave stark
#386 - 2012-07-26 15:05:21 UTC
Dramaticus wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Dave stark wrote:

that's not really the issue that a small ship can kill a big ship. that's fine. a small ship killing a bigger ship so quickly is the issue, to be honest.

It's highsec: you simply must kill something within a specific amount of time.

It's absolutely trivial to tank a hulk to resist a catalyst, and easy to resist two. I don't have an issue with them increasing the hulk's tank when the hulk has made a tradeoff for extra tank. I have a problem with increasing the tank of a 4x civilian shield booster hulk.


if you're time limited; bring bigger guns.
personally i don't think it's unreasonable for a hulk to be able to tank a ship worth more than it's module drops until concord arrives without giving up anything. being able to tank a ship of equal value until concord arrives without fitting for it would mean the ehp buff has gone too far.

obviously you may feel differently to me about that.


You do realize that right now, under current mechanics, it is possible for you to do that, right?

no, you can't. that's the point. every fitting that will repel a destroyer fits fitting mods in the lows. (at least, every one i've seen)
Dave stark
#387 - 2012-07-26 15:06:52 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
no, you fit your ship to do missions as efficiently as possible. that's the same thing as fitting to mine as efficiently as possible.

i have no problem with hulkaggedon, if you want to gank me i think you're perfectly entitled to do so; provided you actually have to put some effort in to it and not just use ships costing less than the contents of my jetcan. the tears from the gankers about this buff is the fact that they're no longer able to do it in throwaway ships and have to put some kind of investment in to ******* up some one's day. hard life isn't it?


So you are happy that CCP are effectively throwing ship balance out of the window to 'protect' hisec miners?

Of course, i shouldnt really expect people to care about game balance when you just chew on rocks for a living


yeah because a destroyer destroying a t2 ship worth close to 300m in a matter of seconds is perfectly balanced? ok.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#388 - 2012-07-26 15:07:02 UTC
Why fit a damage control when you can just get CCP to change the stats of the ship

amirite?

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#389 - 2012-07-26 15:07:36 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
yeah because a destroyer destroying a t2 ship worth close to 300m in a matter of seconds is perfectly balanced? ok.
When you stop attributing survivability to ship cost we might take you seriously

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Jed Bobby
Doomheim
#390 - 2012-07-26 15:09:48 UTC
man i dun se how yu slaves die so often.
i fly roun null all day in a executonerr an tey werp me an webife me an all that good stuff
but as lon as i don jus sit der dem guys caint never kill me
yer dewin it rong
Kyra Yaken
Doomheim
#391 - 2012-07-26 15:09:53 UTC
Goons tears are best tears. Keep them comming.

True story Bro.
Dave stark
#392 - 2012-07-26 15:12:01 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Dave stark wrote:

if you're time limited; bring bigger guns.

My point is the argument "it kills it too quickly" is nonsensical. It's highsec: any kill must happen fast or it doesn't happen, so you can't argue it 'died too fast'. You can only argue it shouldn't have died.


not at all. as pointed out on the previous page an assault frigate can, and should, be able to kill a battleship. smaller ship killing bigger ship. it just shouldn't happen quickly. if we remove the time factor it comes down to who 1shots who first and small ships will never be able to take on big ships so any one that can't fly a bigger ship is instantly at a disadvantage.

i don't deny that a kill must happen fast in high sec, that doesn't mean a small ship should be able to kill a big ship in a matter of seconds though it simply means you should bring bigger guns.
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#393 - 2012-07-26 15:12:53 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Dramaticus wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Dave stark wrote:

that's not really the issue that a small ship can kill a big ship. that's fine. a small ship killing a bigger ship so quickly is the issue, to be honest.

It's highsec: you simply must kill something within a specific amount of time.

It's absolutely trivial to tank a hulk to resist a catalyst, and easy to resist two. I don't have an issue with them increasing the hulk's tank when the hulk has made a tradeoff for extra tank. I have a problem with increasing the tank of a 4x civilian shield booster hulk.


if you're time limited; bring bigger guns.
personally i don't think it's unreasonable for a hulk to be able to tank a ship worth more than it's module drops until concord arrives without giving up anything. being able to tank a ship of equal value until concord arrives without fitting for it would mean the ehp buff has gone too far.

obviously you may feel differently to me about that.


You do realize that right now, under current mechanics, it is possible for you to do that, right?

no, you can't. that's the point. every fitting that will repel a destroyer fits fitting mods in the lows. (at least, every one i've seen)


So what you're saying is that is possible, you just won't do it. How is this a problem CCP needs to fix exactly?

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Dave stark
#394 - 2012-07-26 15:14:47 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
yeah because a destroyer destroying a t2 ship worth close to 300m in a matter of seconds is perfectly balanced? ok.
When you stop attributing survivability to ship cost we might take you seriously


a ship destroying another ship who's modules are worth more than the ganker's ship in a matter of seconds is perfectly balanced?

ccp just stated they don't want you suicide ganking for profit, deal with it.
Dave stark
#395 - 2012-07-26 15:16:36 UTC
Dramaticus wrote:
So what you're saying is that is possible, you just won't do it. How is this a problem CCP needs to fix exactly?


no, if you read what i wrote, then read what you replied with...
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#396 - 2012-07-26 15:19:38 UTC
I HAVE TO FIT SOMETHING OTHER THAN MINING LASER UPGRADES IF I WANT TO SURVIVE THIS IS AN OUTRAGE CCP AS A LOYAL CUSTOMER I DEMAND SATISFACTION THIS IS AGAINST MY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Jed Bobby
Doomheim
#397 - 2012-07-26 15:22:49 UTC
Dramaticus wrote:
I HAVE TO FLY SOMETHING OTHER THAN DIRT CHEAP SHIPS IF I WANT TO GANK SOMEONE THIS IS AN OUTRAGE CCP AS A LOYAL CUSTOMER I DEMAND SATISFACTION THIS IS AGAINST MY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS



dere, i dun fixed it
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#398 - 2012-07-26 15:23:12 UTC
Dramaticus wrote:
I HAVE TO FIT SOMETHING OTHER THAN MINING LASER UPGRADES IF I WANT TO SURVIVE THIS IS AN OUTRAGE CCP AS A LOYAL CUSTOMER I DEMAND SATISFACTION THIS IS AGAINST MY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS


This is literally the argument being presented.

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Dave stark
#399 - 2012-07-26 15:23:37 UTC
Dramaticus wrote:
I HAVE TO FIT SOMETHING OTHER THAN MINING LASER UPGRADES IF I WANT TO SURVIVE THIS IS AN OUTRAGE CCP AS A LOYAL CUSTOMER I DEMAND SATISFACTION THIS IS AGAINST MY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS


it's more to do with the fact that the hulk can't fit a tank without fitting mods that's the issue. having to tank my hulk is fine; however the hulk doesn't have the fitting requirements to do so without fitting mods.

i've never had to use fitting mods to fit a combat ship, ever. combat ships have the power grid and cpu to fill all their mid and low slots without fitting mods, why should a hulk be forced to use fitting mods to fill all the slots on the ship?
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#400 - 2012-07-26 15:24:33 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
a ship destroying another ship who's modules are worth more than the ganker's ship in a matter of seconds is perfectly balanced?

ccp just stated they don't want you suicide ganking for profit, deal with it.

a ship destroying another ship that could have easily fit to survive (with little to no tradeoffs), that's balanced yes