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Mining barge changes [now with feedback]
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Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#221 - 2012-07-26 11:47:24 UTC
Am I missing something? I can't find the new mining frigate on SiSi ? You know, the one in the concept art from the dev blog.

Please don't tell me that the "new" mining frigate is now the skiff? I was really looking forward to the new ship design. I'd buy one for looks, and just use it for hauling or something...
Dave stark
#222 - 2012-07-26 11:48:31 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
Am I missing something? I can't find the new mining frigate on SiSi ? You know, the one in the concept art from the dev blog.

Please don't tell me that the "new" mining frigate is now the skiff? I was really looking forward to the new ship design. I'd buy one for looks, and just use it for hauling or something...


new mining ship isn't on sisi yet. there's no ore frigate in the market window menu thing at least.

hell, i don't even think the ship has a name yet, let alone a place on sisi.
Annette Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#223 - 2012-07-26 11:58:34 UTC
Newest build up on Sisi

no crystal size reduction
no cargobay expansion

but Ore bays on the Retreiver and Mac have been reduced and the bonus has been reduced from 10% to 5%
Dave stark
#224 - 2012-07-26 12:00:42 UTC
Annette Aumer wrote:
Newest build up on Sisi

no crystal size reduction
no cargobay expansion

but Ore bays on the Retreiver and Mac have been reduced and the bonus has been reduced from 10% to 5%


ah ****, i regret buying those mackinaws now.
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#225 - 2012-07-26 12:02:17 UTC
Annette Aumer wrote:
Newest build up on Sisi

no crystal size reduction
no cargobay expansion

but Ore bays on the Retreiver and Mac have been reduced and the bonus has been reduced from 10% to 5%

Boo! Hiss!!

TBH I don't really care about the cargo bay/crystal issue. But the size of the ore bay was excellent. I'm disappointed they reduced it. As it was at 37.5K, it took roughly 30 mins to fill it up. That seemed perfect for the role of the boat. Now, it'll be less perfect.
Dave stark
#226 - 2012-07-26 12:14:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
so that puts the retriever at 20*1.25 = 25k m3 cargo...
and the mackinaw at uh... 31.25 k m3?

infact, why am i guessing? i'll check sisi.

mack calculations were right, but the retriever has had the ore bay increased (or i'm just being forgetful thinking it was 20k m3 to begin with) so it's 20*1.5 = 28125 m3

with the ore bays that close, the mackinaw is now redundant.
Annette Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#227 - 2012-07-26 13:18:17 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
so that puts the retriever at 20*1.25 = 25k m3 cargo...
and the mackinaw at uh... 31.25 k m3?

infact, why am i guessing? i'll check sisi.

mack calculations were right, but the retriever has had the ore bay increased (or i'm just being forgetful thinking it was 20k m3 to begin with) so it's 20*1.5 = 28125 m3

with the ore bays that close, the mackinaw is now redundant.



you're doing your calculation at *1.5 for the retrieiver? its 5% bonus per level not 10%?
Dave stark
#228 - 2012-07-26 13:27:04 UTC
Annette Aumer wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
so that puts the retriever at 20*1.25 = 25k m3 cargo...
and the mackinaw at uh... 31.25 k m3?

infact, why am i guessing? i'll check sisi.

mack calculations were right, but the retriever has had the ore bay increased (or i'm just being forgetful thinking it was 20k m3 to begin with) so it's 20*1.5 = 28125 m3

with the ore bays that close, the mackinaw is now redundant.



you're doing your calculation at *1.5 for the retrieiver? its 5% bonus per level not 10%?


i think i need more sleep. what i wrote there was absolute ******* jibberish.

let me try again; the old calculation was 20*1.5 = 30k, the new calculation is 22.5*1.25 = 28.125. for the retriever.
the mackinaw has just been reduced from 37.5k to 31.25k. previously there was a 7.5k difference which is less than two cycles, however the sheer volume it has to begin with justified the difference. now the difference and the initial size has been reduced the mackinaw's only difference from the retriever is the tank; which is only better because it has to be to avoid suicide ganks which is a different subject entirely.
Annette Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#229 - 2012-07-26 14:34:23 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Annette Aumer wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
so that puts the retriever at 20*1.25 = 25k m3 cargo...
and the mackinaw at uh... 31.25 k m3?

infact, why am i guessing? i'll check sisi.

mack calculations were right, but the retriever has had the ore bay increased (or i'm just being forgetful thinking it was 20k m3 to begin with) so it's 20*1.5 = 28125 m3

with the ore bays that close, the mackinaw is now redundant.



you're doing your calculation at *1.5 for the retrieiver? its 5% bonus per level not 10%?


i think i need more sleep. what i wrote there was absolute ******* jibberish.

let me try again; the old calculation was 20*1.5 = 30k, the new calculation is 22.5*1.25 = 28.125. for the retriever.
the mackinaw has just been reduced from 37.5k to 31.25k. previously there was a 7.5k difference which is less than two cycles, however the sheer volume it has to begin with justified the difference. now the difference and the initial size has been reduced the mackinaw's only difference from the retriever is the tank; which is only better because it has to be to avoid suicide ganks which is a different subject entirely.


haha yea
I'm a little sad they've reduced the ore bay on the mac, it has completely removed my want for it. I'll just use a retreiver as the yield difference i'm guessing will be minimal.

/on rant
as for the suicide ganking thing.. that forum post is elsewhere and is hilarious.

Of Course suicide ganking was never designed to be profitable. It was always intended as a way for people to reallllly **** people off and ruin their day.

Instead its become some form of metagaming where people calculate losses and then ruin peoples days and make them ragequit just for fun and tears AND earn money. pfft. I think thats having their cake and eating it.
/off rant
Dave stark
#230 - 2012-07-26 14:41:21 UTC
Annette Aumer wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Annette Aumer wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
so that puts the retriever at 20*1.25 = 25k m3 cargo...
and the mackinaw at uh... 31.25 k m3?

infact, why am i guessing? i'll check sisi.

mack calculations were right, but the retriever has had the ore bay increased (or i'm just being forgetful thinking it was 20k m3 to begin with) so it's 20*1.5 = 28125 m3

with the ore bays that close, the mackinaw is now redundant.



you're doing your calculation at *1.5 for the retrieiver? its 5% bonus per level not 10%?


i think i need more sleep. what i wrote there was absolute ******* jibberish.

let me try again; the old calculation was 20*1.5 = 30k, the new calculation is 22.5*1.25 = 28.125. for the retriever.
the mackinaw has just been reduced from 37.5k to 31.25k. previously there was a 7.5k difference which is less than two cycles, however the sheer volume it has to begin with justified the difference. now the difference and the initial size has been reduced the mackinaw's only difference from the retriever is the tank; which is only better because it has to be to avoid suicide ganks which is a different subject entirely.


haha yea
I'm a little sad they've reduced the ore bay on the mac, it has completely removed my want for it. I'll just use a retreiver as the yield difference i'm guessing will be minimal.

/on rant
as for the suicide ganking thing.. that forum post is elsewhere and is hilarious.

Of Course suicide ganking was never designed to be profitable. It was always intended as a way for people to reallllly **** people off and ruin their day.

Instead its become some form of metagaming where people calculate losses and then ruin peoples days and make them ragequit just for fun and tears AND earn money. pfft. I think thats having their cake and eating it.
/off rant


mackinaw is exhumer I requirement now, so going from a ret to a mack with bare minimum mack skills you gain less than 1 cycle of ore's space, and 1% yield bonus. and at max skill you gain less than 1 cycle of ore's space, and 5% yield. (and maybe the cpu to fit a 2nd/3rd mlu) but you're giving up all of your cpu so you can't fit tank modules
Annette Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#231 - 2012-07-26 14:43:42 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Annette Aumer wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Annette Aumer wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
so that puts the retriever at 20*1.25 = 25k m3 cargo...
and the mackinaw at uh... 31.25 k m3?

infact, why am i guessing? i'll check sisi.

mack calculations were right, but the retriever has had the ore bay increased (or i'm just being forgetful thinking it was 20k m3 to begin with) so it's 20*1.5 = 28125 m3

with the ore bays that close, the mackinaw is now redundant.



you're doing your calculation at *1.5 for the retrieiver? its 5% bonus per level not 10%?


i think i need more sleep. what i wrote there was absolute ******* jibberish.

let me try again; the old calculation was 20*1.5 = 30k, the new calculation is 22.5*1.25 = 28.125. for the retriever.
the mackinaw has just been reduced from 37.5k to 31.25k. previously there was a 7.5k difference which is less than two cycles, however the sheer volume it has to begin with justified the difference. now the difference and the initial size has been reduced the mackinaw's only difference from the retriever is the tank; which is only better because it has to be to avoid suicide ganks which is a different subject entirely.


haha yea
I'm a little sad they've reduced the ore bay on the mac, it has completely removed my want for it. I'll just use a retreiver as the yield difference i'm guessing will be minimal.

/on rant
as for the suicide ganking thing.. that forum post is elsewhere and is hilarious.

Of Course suicide ganking was never designed to be profitable. It was always intended as a way for people to reallllly **** people off and ruin their day.

Instead its become some form of metagaming where people calculate losses and then ruin peoples days and make them ragequit just for fun and tears AND earn money. pfft. I think thats having their cake and eating it.
/off rant


mackinaw is exhumer I requirement now, so going from a ret to a mack with bare minimum mack skills you gain less than 1 cycle of ore's space, and 1% yield bonus. and at max skill you gain less than 1 cycle of ore's space, and 5% yield. (and maybe the cpu to fit a 2nd/3rd mlu) but you're giving up all of your cpu so you can't fit tank modules


This makes me a sad panda. thats barely an upgrade at all.
Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#232 - 2012-07-26 14:45:28 UTC
They should limit all three ships to 1 mining laser fitted and give all three ships 3 high slots. That way we could have 2 high slots for various utility high modules like cloaks, remote repair modules, autotargetting, probe launchers, etc.

That would be neat.

Drox
Dave stark
#233 - 2012-07-26 14:47:48 UTC
Droxlyn wrote:
They should limit all three ships to 1 mining laser fitted and give all three ships 3 high slots. That way we could have 2 high slots for various utility high modules like cloaks, remote repair modules, autotargetting, probe launchers, etc.

That would be neat.

Drox


mining barges don't need utility slots, nor should they get them. however reducing all barges to 1 high slot and giving them the 200% yield bonus ala skiff we've instantly solved the crystal problem for the hulk.
Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#234 - 2012-07-26 14:56:33 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
mining barges don't need utility slots, nor should they get them. however reducing all barges to 1 high slot and giving them the 200% yield bonus ala skiff we've instantly solved the crystal problem for the hulk.


It would do that too.
But if the Skiff doesn't have the ability to find its own gravi sites, then you may as well have an Orca with a probing ship in the SMB flying around with you to carry your various ships. If you want that lone skiff to go do things alone, he will need tools to do them. I'd like to put a tractor beam on the Hulk so the Orca can drop some crystals in a can and let the Hulk pilot suck them over to him.

I want the ability to make the ships a little more interesting than just ore processing machines.

(What I really wanted was a Hulk with 5 launcher and 5 turret hard points and 8 high slots (limit 3 strips, no standard mining lasers). That way, you could defend the Hulks with Hulks. But you know, you can only choose between Ganking defenseless roids and ships.)

Drox
Dave stark
#235 - 2012-07-26 15:03:38 UTC
Droxlyn wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
mining barges don't need utility slots, nor should they get them. however reducing all barges to 1 high slot and giving them the 200% yield bonus ala skiff we've instantly solved the crystal problem for the hulk.


It would do that too.
But if the Skiff doesn't have the ability to find its own gravi sites, then you may as well have an Orca with a probing ship in the SMB flying around with you to carry your various ships. If you want that lone skiff to go do things alone, he will need tools to do them. I'd like to put a tractor beam on the Hulk so the Orca can drop some crystals in a can and let the Hulk pilot suck them over to him.

I want the ability to make the ships a little more interesting than just ore processing machines.

(What I really wanted was a Hulk with 5 launcher and 5 turret hard points and 8 high slots (limit 3 strips, no standard mining lasers). That way, you could defend the Hulks with Hulks. But you know, you can only choose between Ganking defenseless roids and ships.)

Drox


i'm just going to say; no, it's a mining ship not a swiss army knife.
Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#236 - 2012-07-26 15:12:43 UTC
Dave stark wrote:


i'm just going to say; no, it's a mining ship not a swiss army knife.


One can dream, right?

I'm just saying, for as hostile of a universe that is known in-universe to be hostile, there are an awful lot of ships that lack teeth.

If I were a ship design engineer in Eve, all of my ships would be teeth with some other purpose bolted on. Are you telling me that on the acres of surface area on the Charon, there was no room for missile launcher hard points? I would have sacked that engineer on the spot, which as a Caldari, probably would have meant spacing him.

If they want more stuff to blow up in Eve, make sure everything has 5 hard points and 5 high-slots minimum.

If they want fights to last longer, give everything 10x more HP and disable the ability to self-destruct while locked.

But, that's beyond the scope of this topic.

Drox
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#237 - 2012-07-26 15:57:16 UTC
Annette Aumer wrote:
Newest build up on Sisi

no crystal size reduction
no cargobay expansion

but Ore bays on the Retreiver and Mac have been reduced and the bonus has been reduced from 10% to 5%


DISLIKE enormous DISLIKE ... bad devs, no cookie!

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Arctos Canis
Ice Wolves
#238 - 2012-07-26 16:50:58 UTC
Denidil wrote:
Annette Aumer wrote:
Newest build up on Sisi

no crystal size reduction
no cargobay expansion

but Ore bays on the Retreiver and Mac have been reduced and the bonus has been reduced from 10% to 5%


DISLIKE enormous DISLIKE ... bad devs, no cookie!


as if the best changes we had were just scratched and downgraded ^_^ , I wounder if they even listen to the miners community :)
Sentinel zx
#239 - 2012-07-26 16:59:37 UTC
Droxlyn wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
mining barges don't need utility slots, nor should they get them. however reducing all barges to 1 high slot and giving them the 200% yield bonus ala skiff we've instantly solved the crystal problem for the hulk.


It would do that too.
But if the Skiff doesn't have the ability to find its own gravi sites, then you may as well have an Orca with a probing ship in the SMB flying around with you to carry your various ships. If you want that lone skiff to go do things alone, he will need tools to do them. I'd like to put a tractor beam on the Hulk so the Orca can drop some crystals in a can and let the Hulk pilot suck them over to him.

I want the ability to make the ships a little more interesting than just ore processing machines.

(What I really wanted was a Hulk with 5 launcher and 5 turret hard points and 8 high slots (limit 3 strips, no standard mining lasers). That way, you could defend the Hulks with Hulks. But you know, you can only choose between Ganking defenseless roids and ships.)

Drox


i think giving skiff one higslot fore Core Probe Launcher at least would be great
and maybe 5% increase scan strength of core probes per skill level
Infinite Force
#240 - 2012-07-26 17:07:23 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Droxlyn wrote:
They should limit all three ships to 1 mining laser fitted and give all three ships 3 high slots. That way we could have 2 high slots for various utility high modules like cloaks, remote repair modules, autotargetting, probe launchers, etc.

That would be neat.

Drox


mining barges don't need utility slots, nor should they get them. however reducing all barges to 1 high slot and giving them the 200% yield bonus ala skiff we've instantly solved the crystal problem for the hulk.

While Stark and I have generally differing opinions on the hole cargo/ore/crystal hold issue. We both want the same thing - an update that is both FAIR and BALANCED.

If the changes were released as-is today, neither point would be addressed.

Given the nature of the mining role, being able to fit a T2 tractor beam would be nice .. an extra HS for utility and a tractor beam reduction in PG/CPU maybe? :)

1 miner and 2 utility (tractor / remote shield xfer / ?? / ?? / ??) though would be cool to see. Even if it may never happen.

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