EVE General Discussion

To quote myself and make a further point, the real sadness here is that smart miners now no longer have an advantage over dumb miners and bots, which is basically a nerf to risk management and thinking things through.

This is sad, truly.

First of all the buff to Hulk is not going to magically make it require 20 tornadoes.

Second you say it yourself: you gank the Tengu for the Gist goodies, not because its bare hull is so sexy.
Same applies to freigthers and Orcas and whatever other ships: if they are empty or have crap fits, they are not worth.

So what makes a mining ship different, that EMPTY and unfitted it should bring in about 16 to 33M worth of salvage (it's what I'd get yesterday when salvaging macks)? Now add the fittings and all of this with an expense off yours of 5-10M?

You should make negative ISK for ganking an empty or T1 fit ship. It costed you no selective skill to kill it, like if you ganked the first badger you see: ooops it was empty.

IF the Hulk has the deadspace fit or has the ORE miners / MLU then LIKE FOR THE GIST TENGU, you should kill it and really make good money. Like for the rest of the game.

I think you understand the flaw in your argument has more to do with the feasibility of suicide ganking rather than the possibility.

Of course it's possible to suicide gank a Hulk, whether it has 20,000 EHP, 200,000 EHP, or 20,000,000 EHP. Nobody's going to bother suicide ganking Hulks with EHP much higher than they are now because it will simply cost too much.

Again, this promotes lazy gameplay, and makes mining ultra easy-mode in highsec.

No...just, no.

See, Ruby Porto there, loves to post that list of "how not to die as a miner" in every thread he comes across where someone bitches and whines about getting ganked. I like it, I like alot of it. I actually have done quite a bit of it myself. I mine in grav sites and mission sites when I'm in high sec, otherwise I'm hidden in WH's.

Here's my problem with his list when it comes to fitting. Which is really what we're arguing about in this thread. The stat changes and fitting changes to barges.

He includes the exhumers using every single slot fitted for tank.

It is not acceptable that just to survive vs. a T1 dessie for all of 25 seconds a T2 Exhumer commit every single slot and rig to tanking.

Imagine if you flew anything other than an Abaddon in a Lvl 4 with every slot packed with T2 tank mods you were expected to explode within 30 seconds. There would be people complaining about the ship imbalance. People might feel that either the difficulty of the missions or the tanks of other batteships was off.

Needless to say, there would be some bittervet screaming about back in his day, there were no Abaddon's and they ran Lvl 4's in Fleets, exploded, and they liked it!

If an exhumer with half slots tank, half slots yield, had a chance against a decent ass dessie fit, we wouldn't be where we are today. But it doesn't, and here we are.

Suck it up, HTFU, and adapt.

I can figure out how to avoid getting suicide ganked in a Hulk without any tank mods at all.
If you can't, why should I stand back and let you get coddled by CCP?
It's your own damn fault if you can't be creative enough to play this game properly.

This is exactly it. It's a perfectly reasonable way to re-balance, and it is really necessary.

Well if you're not arguing that, then I think you can agree that this is a terrible change. It's like mining in a Rokh with a larger cargohold and a bonus to mining laser yield.

Another little story.

Carpet bombing belts is as lame and unskillful as it was playing Rain of Fire bright wizards in Warhammer.

The natural selection should apply to the gankers at least if not more (because they are the predators) than on miners.

Few weeks ago I went with one of my Cheetahs and scanned an Hulk and lo and behold, it has the Halada's fitting, that is the nice deadspace small shield booster.

I have a caldari alt (I know, sucky choice ) with a series of dessies, one for ninja looting, some for asploding and so on. So I got the guy popped, and the shield alone sold for 162M at Jita.

Since then I also discovered other miners use Caldari Navy small shield boosters (eve mail me I can even tell you where to find them).

That's The Ganking, that is a mindful operation helped with intelligence and aimed at sniping the pinatas.

The rest is dumb carpet farming, why should you reap hundreds of millions a day for that? Yesterday I ninjaed 240M worth of stuff off exploded Macks, the ganker seemed not interested beyond taking the mods (even if he wasn't, QQ I ninjaed it anyway)


With the same Cheetah I find DED4/10 not far from Jita (!) and then use the Caldari alt with a Drake to do them.
Guess what, doing a DED 4/10 takes longer, there's always 3-4 competitors (happens in minmatar space too) trying to steal the cans and the cans will contain from 5M worth of crap to the a 70M module (never got anything above that).

Now, match the effort of scanning and winning over competitors to get from 5M to 70M and see how it measures with "warp in, melt Mackinaw, get 1-2 intact armor playes at 16,500,000 a piece + random lesser scraps".

Boot.ini

Nowhere is safe.

*sigh*