EVE General Discussion

And there it is.

I. Profitable ganking: You end up with more ISK than when you started the attack. (Via T2 Plates, T2 Strips etc)

This is possible with Catalysts in narrow situations (0.5-0.7 + good skills or numbers + failfit Exhumer)
This WAS possible with Tornados until the boomerang nerf - because you could kill 4-6 Mackinaws per Tornado.
Also, fishing for haulers and Tengus fall into this category.

II. Ganking for Tears: Target loses more ISK than you do. (By FAR the most common...)
This is the essence of miner ganking.
For instance, sacrificing a 75-100M ISK T2 Tornado to take down a 300M ISK fail-fit Hulk.

III. Rage (idiotic) ganking?: You lose more ISK than the target. (Honestly, don't know what to call it because it doesn't really exist.)

This almost never happens in practice. I know that if someone wasted 400M worth of ships to 'try' to kill my 200M ISK Exhumer, I'd be laughing my ass off. I say 'try' because every attempt guarantees loss, while success and drops are not.

Orcas (and most other T1 ships) fall into this category due to insurance. Which is why they are rarely ganked unless fit with some serious bling. T1 Barges mostly fall into this category as well, unless you can pop them with a T1 Dessie.

Sounds like you feel that all ganking should be 'rage' ganking - which would be a major shift in hi-sec dynamics. Suicide ganking, while possible, will more or less disappear because gankers are not irrational.

By all means, redefine the roles of the Exhumers....Merc/ICE/Ore seemed to be a silly way to define your Exhumers, TBH.
But stick to giving them some extra grid, slots and power grid, if you must. Nix the Ore bay. Leave it to the miners to figure out how to properly fit them.

And if you are dead set on these mega-EHP Exhumers....
at a bare minimum, build costs should be heavily scaled up. (and I mean 2 or 3x times, at a minimum, especially for the Mack and Skiff...)

So then we go back to my original statement, either you are mistaken or those who say they do gank regardless of profit will be exposed for the truth of their actions. I'm not making a judgement either way, but both can't be true.

Cool story bro

But I prefer the version where all 3 little miners lol while concord wtf molests the **** out of the big bad ganker while he tries to ******* do the miners in in hi-sec.



1stly, there is no right or wrong way to fit. There are just fits. Some are better than others. The fit justifies the end.

2ndly, Its called emergent game-play adjustments. This is where CCP acknowledges that gankers, as a group, are too chickenshiz to gank barges using wardecs, or venture out into gankland where wardecs are not needed and Concord cannot touch you.

Soundwave apparently, but on a side note I'm not sure cost and performance can ever be segregated as we place a great deal of value in specialization and superiority as players.

As to your comparison, how does the EHP of an purely active tengu compare to a purely active tanked hulk? The goal can't be centered around isk for isk anyways as ships with high EHP roles but lesser costs make that impossible as well as the fact that even in the same role EHP doesn't scale with cost. Best you can do is decide a cost that a certain type of ship can be killed at and set EHP and fitting accordingly.

I just think it was a poor choice of words on soundwaves part that shouldn't be interpreted quite so literally, but I could be wrong.

Well then, perhaps they should crack down on bots...

His wording is pretty clear.




The EHP on a purely active Tengu coming through a Gate is low enough that it can be single shotted by a Nado on the gate. The Hulk doesn't have any reason to fit an active tank in HS, and even if it did, it would have some 27k EHP, more than enough to survive 2 shots from a Nado.

Deciding on a cost to gank is fine (that's basically what a Freighter's EHP is). But there's no reason it should have anything to do with the cost of the ship.

They have. As did my corp, however these changes mean that it would be impossible to run another big interdiction. The problem with bots is that they just keep on coming back. But there is also the problem with eveyone else mining. These changes will result in low end ore prices dropping again which is bad for miners.

There is still quite a bit of room for interpretation. When I read it I took it as hull for hull, not counting variables including fit and cargo. But as I said before, I could be mistaken.

It shouldn't (and doesn't even in the hulk's case with similar costing ships). Your illustration proves that. Maybe what we have is more of a response to the social evolution of the game then.

there is literally no way to make it cost as much as a Hulk to suicide gank a Hulk because there is no across the board damage/cost ratio for ships because of the diminishing returns aspect of the game

a Vindicator may be substantially more powerful than a Megathron, but even though it costs 10x as much, it does not perform 10x as well

lmao ex-widot