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CCP - promoting AFK mining and botting with the new barges.
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Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#281 - 2012-07-25 22:51:14 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
If people leave it'll be at about August 25-28 for a game where PvP requires skill and is fun.

I have played all the beta week ends and tbh EvE PvP can't hold a candle to it.


Guild Wars 2? ahahahaha

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
qDoctor Strangelove
Doomheim
#282 - 2012-07-25 22:54:43 UTC
Danny Diamonds wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
dexington wrote:
The Procurer was just useless, do to the small difference in skill required to fly the Retriever, the same was true when you compare Covetor with Hulk. You used the retriever when training for hulk, and the covetor when it was not safe to use the hulk. The mack and Skiff has the specialized bonus for ice and mercoxit, which makes them usefull, but only if you decide to mine that kind of material.

Saying that because people used the ships everything was fine, is just wrong. The ships was not useless, you just did not have any choice in what you wanted to fly.


Yeah tell me more about hisec miners mining mercoxit

You have plenty of choices, it's just that you feel entitled to fly the highest yield ships at all times.



So you are saying everyone should fly sub-optimal ships for every task? I do seem to recall fleets of Rifters for new players, and not many sitting in Condors. Same is true for every tier of ship. There are those worth flying, those that are clearly in the top 3, and there are those not worth flying. What kind of logic says someone should fly sub-optimal?


So..
Let me tell you about this max gank Dominix with sentry drones and blasters and no tank that can do like 12-1400 DPS easy...
Now THAT is a PVP ship for SURE. Lets make a fleet of them and go sit on the gate in HED killing everything that comes through. No need for a tank because that will be sub optimal...
Anvil44
Avedis Corporation
The Vanguard Syndicate
#283 - 2012-07-25 23:01:41 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Anvil44 wrote:
Where have I heard about that before?


when hulk pilots didn't want to take it upon themselves to adapt

And those that didn't were blown up. Now the pendulum swings a different way. I have no doubt the good gankers (if there is such as thing as a 'good ganker'Lol) will adapt, the rest will whine and cry until such a time as there is need to buff destroyers - whoops, already done...how about putting BS sized guns on battlecruisers? Done that too. Wow, lots of buffs for ganking already. Well, perhaps they'll come up with something. And so the game grows and evolves. Gotta love Eve.Big smile

I may not like you or your point of view but you have a right to voice it.
Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#284 - 2012-07-25 23:13:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Werst Dendenahzees
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:


I just don't get it, why would you spend time and isk to kill mining barges for some "crusade" (lol irl about this) and then suddenly you just can't do it because you need to loose some ships?]


Spoilers: most exhumers killed by hulkageddon had less than 15-20K EHP. A fully tanked hulk was 30-40k, and very hard to kill. You needed 3-4 T2 catalysts or 1-2 talos. Most mackinaws and hulks were nowhere near that as pubbies like their mining yield and cargo space.

In the new system, the hulks are going to be the weakest tanked exhumers, yet they still were buffed. Therefore, the skiff will probably reach 100k+ ehp, which is almost freighter-level. It's ridiculous enough that battle skiffs will be a thing. I will certainly bait people with a fully tanked 150k ehp skiff.
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#285 - 2012-07-25 23:18:02 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
The new barges now tank very well with max yeild setups. This is wrong.

No, they are not able to have both max tank and max yield.

Go to SiSi and try to build a Mack. You will find that they have fairly bad constraints on cap and CPU. So you get your choice - good tank or good yield. You cannot fit a 4-mid-slot active shield buffer/resist tank AND an MLU - won't work. This is the way it should be. I guarantee you that if you demand to fit an multiple MLUs, your tank will be mediocre at best due to CPU constraints.

You choose: tank or yield. The only difference now is that when you choose a tank, its a good tank that is more than desi-spoiler tank of the soon to be past Hulks.
Dave stark
#286 - 2012-07-25 23:20:10 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The new barges now tank very well with max yeild setups. This is wrong.

No, they are not able to have both max tank and max yield.

Go to SiSi and try to build a Mack. You will find that they have fairly bad constraints on cap and CPU. So you get your choice - good tank or good yield. You cannot fit a 4-mid-slot active shield buffer/resist tank AND an MLU - won't work. This is the way it should be. I guarantee you that if you demand to fit an multiple MLUs, your tank will be mediocre at best due to CPU constraints.

You choose: tank or yield. The only difference now is that when you choose a tank, its a good tank that is more than desi-spoiler tank of the soon to be past Hulks.


not to mention the mack has 3 low slots, stuff mlus in all of those and you're almost out of cpu before you even consider mid slot modules.
Anvil44
Avedis Corporation
The Vanguard Syndicate
#287 - 2012-07-25 23:29:09 UTC
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:


I just don't get it, why would you spend time and isk to kill mining barges for some "crusade" (lol irl about this) and then suddenly you just can't do it because you need to loose some ships?]


Spoilers: most exhumers killed by hulkageddon had less than 15-20K EHP. A fully tanked hulk was 30-40k, and very hard to kill. You needed 3-4 T2 catalysts or 1-2 talos. Most mackinaws and hulks were nowhere near that as pubbies like their mining yield and cargo space.

In the new system, the hulks are going to be the weakest tanked exhumers, yet they still were buffed. Therefore, the skiff will probably reach 100k+ ehp, which is almost freighter-level. It's ridiculous enough that battle skiffs will be a thing. I will certainly bait people with a fully tanked 150k ehp skiff.


Buff to the Hulk isn't too stupendous. And remember, just like if you want to mine in safety, you should fleet up, have logi, have good support, so too if you wish to gank, you should fleet up, have ships supporting each other (which for this should simply be a few more ships to complete the job, doubt you need to worry about logistics or anything complicated like that). Ganking is still easier than (relatively) safe mining. Easier to coordinate, easier to pull off. I really can't see what all the complaints are about.

I may not like you or your point of view but you have a right to voice it.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#288 - 2012-07-25 23:34:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Richard Desturned wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
If people leave it'll be at about August 25-28 for a game where PvP requires skill and is fun.

I have played all the beta week ends and tbh EvE PvP can't hold a candle to it.


Guild Wars 2? ahahahaha


Yeah the game where you can meet a lot of Goons (some even got killed in PVP videos). Strange, eh?


But hey what do I want to pretend from players of a MMO oriented to clickers, whose heartbeat is capped at 1 second, where there is no real collision gameplay, where there's no precise positioning and where soloing means bringing 3-4 RR alts and a falcon?

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Commit Sudoku
Perkone
Caldari State
#289 - 2012-07-25 23:48:50 UTC
uh I'm pretty sure bots can perform complicated maneuvers like 'switching roids' and 'resetting lasers' and ccp knows this

guy on foreground: me posting guy in background: you
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#290 - 2012-07-26 00:17:50 UTC
Commit Sudoku wrote:
uh I'm pretty sure bots can perform complicated maneuvers like 'switching roids' and 'resetting lasers' and ccp knows this


Well, EvE UI is static, cannot be modded and has lots of text that can be easily "understood" by bots. EvE is the most bot friendly UI AAA title out there.

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EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#291 - 2012-07-26 00:20:15 UTC
please don't ever put "eve UI" and "AAA" in the same sentence again for any reason

ccp might get confused
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#292 - 2012-07-26 00:22:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
CCP should continue bringing us more new game enhancements like this

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Betrinna Cantis
#293 - 2012-07-26 00:25:55 UTC
I know what is going to happen to hi sec.....Big smile

Alts have been changed to protect the Innocent. You may have mistaken me for someone who cares.....
ashley Eoner
#294 - 2012-07-26 00:30:49 UTC
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
You will need like three T2 talos to kill one of the new hulks in a 0.7 system. Skiffs mining ice in a 0.9 system are basically free money forever, unless someone assembles a 20 tornado team to kill them, which is hilarious unprofitable.
Someone suffers from extreme exaggerations. You might of fooled some people with your ridiculous statements about the mild increase in Hulk tank if you hadn't went straight crazy with the comment about Ice in .9...


I personally don't like these changes because low end mineral prices are going to fall as people will be able to mine without being ganked :(
Dave stark
#295 - 2012-07-26 01:21:26 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
You will need like three T2 talos to kill one of the new hulks in a 0.7 system. Skiffs mining ice in a 0.9 system are basically free money forever, unless someone assembles a 20 tornado team to kill them, which is hilarious unprofitable.
Someone suffers from extreme exaggerations. You might of fooled some people with your ridiculous statements about the mild increase in Hulk tank if you hadn't went straight crazy with the comment about Ice in .9...


I personally don't like these changes because low end mineral prices are going to fall as people will be able to mine without being ganked :(


why not? low prices means you can spend more time doing fun things instead of wasting time gathering isk to buy stuff to use doing fun things.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#296 - 2012-07-26 02:02:24 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Commit Sudoku wrote:
uh I'm pretty sure bots can perform complicated maneuvers like 'switching roids' and 'resetting lasers' and ccp knows this

Well, EvE UI is static, cannot be modded and has lots of text that can be easily "understood" by bots. EvE is the most bot friendly UI AAA title out there.

EvilweaselSA wrote:
please don't ever put "eve UI" and "AAA" in the same sentence again for any reason

ccp might get confused

That's pretty nice.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc
#297 - 2012-07-26 02:57:40 UTC
Finally I can move my capship about without it costing an arm and a leg.

Where do you guys think the new floor for isotopes will be? :allears:
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#298 - 2012-07-26 02:59:02 UTC
Move ice fields to .6 and lower systems, and make it so players must be in a player ran corp to use barges and exhumers. Problem equalized.
Pipa Porto
#299 - 2012-07-26 03:00:57 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:
Move ice fields to .6 and lower systems, and make it so players must be in a player ran corp to use barges and exhumers. Problem equalized.


You can still disband and reform a corp in about 5 minutes. At a cost of 15m to a War Dec's 50m.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#300 - 2012-07-26 03:05:28 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
Move ice fields to .6 and lower systems, and make it so players must be in a player ran corp to use barges and exhumers. Problem equalized.


You can still disband and reform a corp in about 5 minutes. At a cost of 15m to a War Dec's 50m.


Then rework the wardec system as well. :)