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CCP - promoting AFK mining and botting with the new barges.
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Toroup
Prometheus Deep Core Mining and Salvage
#241 - 2012-07-25 21:07:28 UTC
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Fuujin wrote:
On the one hand, I'm against these changes since hisec mining with these ridiculous tanks now redefines "risk-free activity," which to me is antithetical to the design of eve (a risk-filled universe).

Now the balm to this is that with the return of the mining bot (they never really left) to full strength the cost of low ends will plummet. Enjoy your 10-15M per hour grinding existence.


Risk vs. reward.

Low risk = low reward.


Mining in .9 with a Skiff will have 0 risk. How much reward should you get?

So it's been rendered invincible?


Well you will need 10+ tornados to destroy one. Unlike a freighter (the other ship that requires this kind of coordination to kill), it can't contain 10 billion isk of loot. Hence, no one is going to pay a billion isk in tornados to kill a 100m isk ship.


Why not? If eradicating high-sec miners is as "righteous" a crusade as people say it is, then why would you not be willing to take a loss to do the "right" thing?
Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#242 - 2012-07-25 21:08:24 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Fuujin wrote:
On the one hand, I'm against these changes since hisec mining with these ridiculous tanks now redefines "risk-free activity," which to me is antithetical to the design of eve (a risk-filled universe).

Now the balm to this is that with the return of the mining bot (they never really left) to full strength the cost of low ends will plummet. Enjoy your 10-15M per hour grinding existence.


Risk vs. reward.

Low risk = low reward.


Mining in .9 with a Skiff will have 0 risk. How much reward should you get?

So it's been rendered invincible?


no, if this were true no one would ever be able to gank an orca much less a freighter and we know this is not the case.. right?



Orcas and freighters are routinely used to move 1bil+ in goods, and are thus profitable to gank despite their enormous EHP.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#243 - 2012-07-25 21:08:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Barbara Nichole wrote:
no, if this were true no one would ever be able to gank an orca much less a freighter and we know this is not the case.. right?


nobody ganks orcas because anything worth ganking them for is in the corp hangar (which is not scannable and doesn't drop loot) and the insurance nerf basically killed off the ganking of anything that doesn't have 10b+ isk in cargo

but somebody who has been playing longer than me would know this, right???

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#244 - 2012-07-25 21:08:53 UTC
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Fuujin wrote:
On the one hand, I'm against these changes since hisec mining with these ridiculous tanks now redefines "risk-free activity," which to me is antithetical to the design of eve (a risk-filled universe).

Now the balm to this is that with the return of the mining bot (they never really left) to full strength the cost of low ends will plummet. Enjoy your 10-15M per hour grinding existence.


Risk vs. reward.

Low risk = low reward.


Mining in .9 with a Skiff will have 0 risk. How much reward should you get?

So it's been rendered invincible?


Well you will need 10+ tornados to destroy one. Unlike a freighter (the other ship that requires this kind of coordination to kill), it can't contain 10 billion isk of loot. Hence, no one is going to pay a billion isk in tornados to kill a 100m isk ship.



Then this is a buff for gankers, now they will have to stop doing their business alone and start finding friends to gank multi billions loot piñatas.

I say this is a huge buff to ganking actually.

brb
EpicFailTroll
Doomheim
#245 - 2012-07-25 21:09:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Richard Desturned wrote:
EpicFailTroll wrote:
Abloobloo abloobloo why can't we farm Schadenfreude easily anymore


"cold, harsh universe" ahahahahahaha not really, welcome to MLP Online


EvE is only ever kold und harsh if you don't use alt account to completely negate any kind of risk or consequences. But that is not the point.

You might remember a time when games were played IRL, they were usually designed so that everybody had fun, even when losing.

Ganking, while fun for the ganker, is however very unfun for the gankee. EFT is really sad for you that EvE is actually taking a direction towards ingame restrictions of metagame goals, which Schadenfreude is clearly one, i.e. making somebody miserable over the internet, collecting tears, etc. just to feel good about yourself.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#246 - 2012-07-25 21:09:42 UTC
EpicFailTroll wrote:
EvE is only ever kold und harsh if you don't use alt account to completely negate any kind of risk or consequences.


says the guy who posts on an NPC alt

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Pipa Porto
#247 - 2012-07-25 21:10:17 UTC
Danny Diamonds wrote:
Why is there this notion that suicide ganking should be profitable at all?

Go fight something that can shoot back.


Suicide Ganking is exactly as profitable as the victims make it.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Charles Baker
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#248 - 2012-07-25 21:14:46 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Charles Baker wrote:
And balancing it around the fact that Nullseccers can't coordinate their ganks and work as a group, can't fit a ship to do the job properly and demand Barges be nerfed so they can continue their immensely cheap killing spree?


as opposed to demanding that every barge be capable of tanking like a damnation while being capable of getting 5000 m3/minute without any fitting sacrifices?

if you think that we can't coordinate ganks, look at all the freighters we killed during burn jita


Oh these tears are so sweet, mmmmmmm that taste. but in all honesty get some buddies in Catalysts and get@me, rather than bawing about it, infact take your own advice.

ADAPT!
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#249 - 2012-07-25 21:14:48 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Danny Diamonds wrote:
Why is there this notion that suicide ganking should be profitable at all?

Go fight something that can shoot back.


Suicide Ganking is exactly as profitable as the victims make it.


They will have bigger cargo holds so my gess is that you will drop more minerals than before so it's profitable Lol

brb
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#250 - 2012-07-25 21:15:21 UTC
Charles Baker wrote:
ADAPT!


why did you refuse to adapt and fit a tank?

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#251 - 2012-07-25 21:15:35 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:



Then this is a buff for gankers, now they will have to stop doing their business alone and start finding friends to gank multi billions loot piñatas.

I say this is a huge buff to ganking actually.


Who fits a barge with billion isk mods.

Oh wait, pubbies
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#252 - 2012-07-25 21:15:37 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Danny Diamonds wrote:
Why is there this notion that suicide ganking should be profitable at all?

Go fight something that can shoot back.


Suicide Ganking is exactly as profitable as the victims make it.


They will have bigger cargo holds so my gess is that you will drop more minerals than before so it's profitable Lol


ore holds probably won't drop anything

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Pipa Porto
#253 - 2012-07-25 21:16:03 UTC
Toroup wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Justin Thyme wrote:
Ganking should have a higher consequence than it does. You blow up a guys ship. And then come back and loot the body while the cops watch. Really.
Removing insurance was a good first step.
It shouldn't ever be impossible to gank someone.
But it should cost you if really need to do it.



hi the consequence will never be "high enough" until suicide ganking somebody automatically forces the cost of their ship + all of your remaining ISK to the wallet of the ~victim~ and then you get permabanned from the game



A suicide gank ship should cost as much as the ship that it's ganking. So if you want to spend 300M to fit a gank ship to gank a 300M Hulk, I would call that fair.


So my Billion Isk active tanked Tengu (which has about as much EHP as a keenex) should require a Billion isk to gank even though I didn't bother to protect my investment?

A Hulk can be tanked such that it is unprofitable to gank. If you fit it without a tank, you're assuming the risk.

An empty Hulk isn't actually worth ganking, btw. Most of the profit for gankers comes from the strip miners.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Charles Baker
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#254 - 2012-07-25 21:17:22 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Charles Baker wrote:
ADAPT!


why did you refuse to adapt and fit a tank?


I fitted a tank, i'm just laughing at the Irony that your refusing to adapt now that changes are coming. **** changes man, roll with the punches, stop whining about it.
Pipa Porto
#255 - 2012-07-25 21:19:17 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Fuujin wrote:
On the one hand, I'm against these changes since hisec mining with these ridiculous tanks now redefines "risk-free activity," which to me is antithetical to the design of eve (a risk-filled universe).

Now the balm to this is that with the return of the mining bot (they never really left) to full strength the cost of low ends will plummet. Enjoy your 10-15M per hour grinding existence.


Risk vs. reward.

Low risk = low reward.


Mining in .9 with a Skiff will have 0 risk. How much reward should you get?

So it's been rendered invincible?


See many mining Rokh kills?

The new Skiff's gonna easily hit 100k EHP when maxed out for mining yield.

That'll take around 10 Nados (depending on resist profile), at a cost of around 700m. I'd say it's pretty effectively been rendered invincible.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#256 - 2012-07-25 21:20:33 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
See many mining Rokh kills?

The new Skiff's gonna easily hit 100k EHP when maxed out for mining yield.

That'll take around 10 Nados (depending on resist profile), at a cost of around 700m. I'd say it's pretty effectively been rendered invincible.


"but it can still be ganked by 10 tornadoes so it's still perfectly fine!"

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#257 - 2012-07-25 21:21:16 UTC
100k ehp with the sig radius of a frigate

ahahahaha yeah ~balance~

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Pipa Porto
#258 - 2012-07-25 21:21:21 UTC
Toroup wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Fuujin wrote:
On the one hand, I'm against these changes since hisec mining with these ridiculous tanks now redefines "risk-free activity," which to me is antithetical to the design of eve (a risk-filled universe).

Now the balm to this is that with the return of the mining bot (they never really left) to full strength the cost of low ends will plummet. Enjoy your 10-15M per hour grinding existence.


Risk vs. reward.

Low risk = low reward.


Mining in .9 with a Skiff will have 0 risk. How much reward should you get?


Consumers determine the reward not the producers. I don't mine Trit and then tell you what to pay for it. I mine it and then put it on the market for what people are willing to pay for it. You determine the reward, not me.


The combination of supply and demand is what sets the price for a good. When supply increases, price falls. When supply decreases, price rises. Visa Versa for demand. The market's not an NPC thing.

Go look at an Econ 101 book. It'll help you.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Momoyo
Rivinshield Trading Inc.
#259 - 2012-07-25 21:22:13 UTC
Pretty sure ratting bots make more money than mining bots
Pipa Porto
#260 - 2012-07-25 21:24:23 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Danny Diamonds wrote:
Why is there this notion that suicide ganking should be profitable at all?

Go fight something that can shoot back.


Suicide Ganking is exactly as profitable as the victims make it.


They will have bigger cargo holds so my gess is that you will drop more minerals than before so it's profitable Lol


A jetcan of Ore is worth ~6m Isk. Somehow I don't think that's gonna make up the 700m in Nados it's gonna take to gank a skiff in .9 space.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto