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CCP - promoting AFK mining and botting with the new barges.
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Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#121 - 2012-07-25 17:37:35 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
It always required efforts, now it's going to cost two billion isk in t3 battlecruisers to gank a tanked mining ship in a 0.9 system. Low ends are going to plummet and you'll be back to mining for 10 million ISK an hour. I'd rather have 30m/h veldspar and risk being ganked than 10m/h while safe forever.


Please provide numbers for your claims, or you are a liar like the rest of the propaganda team.


Would you just look at the current price of tritanium, veldspar and scordite? It's 2x what it was before the drone mineral nerf and hulkageddon. HAG dropped the volume of highsec mining by over 50% according to Diagoras. You're welcome.
Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#122 - 2012-07-25 17:39:29 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
i mean this change literally benefits me because i have isk invested in high-ends which will actually be used in manufacturing when lowends drop back down, but i dislike the idea of risk-free hisec mining


If this change really benefited you as much as you claim, you wouldn't be depositing vast quantities of your tears all over every thread involving Barge and Exhumer buffs. And nobody actually believes mining is risk-free. Every ship in the game is gankable if you use the right tools and have enough friends to pull it off. The upcoming changes do nothing to alter that, except maybe forcing people to make more friends. Which is just madness in an MMO. Roll



I am laughing and posting because carebears don't seem to realize how their wishes for safer mining and larger ore holds can backfire hilariously, as if enacted by a genie with a twisted sense of humor.

Sure, you can mine safely and AFK... for 5 mil isk/h.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#123 - 2012-07-25 17:41:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
i mean this change literally benefits me because i have isk invested in high-ends which will actually be used in manufacturing when lowends drop back down, but i dislike the idea of risk-free hisec mining


If this change really benefited you as much as you claim, you wouldn't be depositing vast quantities of your tears all over every thread involving Barge and Exhumer buffs. And nobody actually believes mining is risk-free. Every ship in the game is gankable if you use the right tools and have enough friends to pull it off. The upcoming changes do nothing to alter that, except maybe forcing people to make more friends. Which is just madness in an MMO. Roll


i understand that you only look at spreadsheets but i personally haven't ganked a single miner in hisec since the ice interdiction, almost a year ago

it's ironic, however, that you speak of "making friends" when you solo afk mine in hisec in a hulk and demand that CCP makes you 100% safe

personally i'd rather live with a bad investment than watch the devs nerf every threat to miners

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Suqq Madiq
#124 - 2012-07-25 17:43:01 UTC
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
HAG dropped the volume of highsec mining by over 50% according to Diagoras. You're welcome.


This is false. Diagoras' Tweets didn't attribute the reduction in highsec mining volume to any one specific event. I'm not surprised that you would make that reach and do it for him, but doing so is disingenuous at best and a blatant lie at worst. You're welcome.
Betrinna Cantis
#125 - 2012-07-25 17:44:01 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Fuujin wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:


CCP fix ice mining... make it less mind numbing.Evil



And this is why I pity human hisec miners. Their entire existence is grinding paltry sums and begging CCP for constant nerfs and buffs, which are never enough.


And this is why I pity human nullsec whiners. Their entire existence is doing what they're told, when they're told to do it. Rolling their face on their F1 key whenever they are told to in massive TiDi lagfests.


as opposed to being a peasant chiseling away at rocks

Ah yes, But we are FREE to do so. Not commanded.Shocked

Alts have been changed to protect the Innocent. You may have mistaken me for someone who cares.....
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#126 - 2012-07-25 17:44:18 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
HAG dropped the volume of highsec mining by over 50% according to Diagoras. You're welcome.


This is false. Diagoras' Tweets didn't attribute the reduction in highsec mining volume to any one specific event. I'm not surprised that you would make that reach and do it for him, but doing so is disingenuous at best and a blatant lie at worst. You're welcome.


yeah the reduction in hisec mining had nothing to do with hulkageddon, an irrelevant event, which certainly had nothing to do with the increase in exhumer/barge HP

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Suqq Madiq
#127 - 2012-07-25 17:44:24 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
it's ironic, however, that you speak of "making friends" when you solo afk mine in hisec in a hulk and demand that CCP makes you 100% safe


I do? Please, link me a post I've made about a) my highsec mining adventures, or b) any posts I've made asking CCP to make my highsec mining adventures risk-free. Oh, what's that? You can't? Well then, it appears you may be just talking out of your ass.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#128 - 2012-07-25 17:45:05 UTC
Betrinna Cantis wrote:
Ah yes, But we are FREE to do so. Not commanded.Shocked


nobody commands me to do anything unless I voluntarily put myself in a situation where I am at somebody's command, i.e. joining a fleet to play eve online with other goons

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#129 - 2012-07-25 17:45:28 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
it's ironic, however, that you speak of "making friends" when you solo afk mine in hisec in a hulk and demand that CCP makes you 100% safe


I do? Please, link me a post I've made about a) my highsec mining adventures, or b) any posts I've made asking CCP to make my highsec mining adventures risk-free. Oh, what's that? You can't? Well then, it appears you may be just talking out of your ass.


considering that you're probably just some guy who recycles forum alts i'm not going to bother hth

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#130 - 2012-07-25 17:47:22 UTC
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:

I am laughing and posting because carebears don't seem to realize how their wishes for safer mining and larger ore holds can backfire hilariously, as if enacted by a genie with a twisted sense of humor.

Sure, you can mine safely and AFK... for 5 mil isk/h.



Low risk = low reward -this is exactly the pre buff argument about high sec yadayada "ho might too much income", those crap ships get some ehp and bigger cargo bay but bad yeld witch leads to low income, seems you got what you asked for.


Where's the problem?

brb
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#131 - 2012-07-25 17:47:44 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
why would you subscribe to a game just to mine imaginary minerals


Probably for the same reason people join a 50k man blob to fight imaginary enemies ... and to suicide on people mining imaginary minerals.


while I'm sure you've never shot anything but an NPC, those "50k man blobs" don't fight "imaginary" enemies because there are actually other people behind them


Yes and you kill them so real that RL police and coroners go to their houses and find out they got killed by a 10 kilotons missile in the face.

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Suqq Madiq
#132 - 2012-07-25 17:48:20 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dosnix
Richard Desturned wrote:
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
it's ironic, however, that you speak of "making friends" when you solo afk mine in hisec in a hulk and demand that CCP makes you 100% safe


I do? Please, link me a post I've made about a) my highsec mining adventures, or b) any posts I've made asking CCP to make my highsec mining adventures risk-free. Oh, what's that? You can't? Well then, it appears you may be just talking out of your ass.


considering that you're probably just some guy who recycles forum alts i'm not going to bother hth


Of course not. Too much :effort: right? Good call. Independent thought and action is well beyond your means,
*snip*

Whoops bad content (Personal Attacks)detected AND deleted ;)
Have a nice day!
ISD Dosnix
Fuujin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#133 - 2012-07-25 17:48:34 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
i mean this change literally benefits me because i have isk invested in high-ends which will actually be used in manufacturing when lowends drop back down, but i dislike the idea of risk-free hisec mining


If this change really benefited you as much as you claim, you wouldn't be depositing vast quantities of your tears all over every thread involving Barge and Exhumer buffs. And nobody actually believes mining is risk-free. Every ship in the game is gankable if you use the right tools and have enough friends to pull it off. The upcoming changes do nothing to alter that, except maybe forcing people to make more friends. Which is just madness in an MMO. Roll



The difference being that freighters and orcas haul billions, and the only other hisec ships to warrant the effort are blinged out incursion/mission runners, also worth billions.


As for the proof of the bot population: That's easily answered. Ice Interdiction: in the beginning, there were 30+ macks in an ice belt, mindlessly working away. After a few days of concentrated ganks, the bot population went away--they migrated to other regions where their ISK generation wouldn't be encumbered. The remaining population was the humans too dumb to realize this basic economic reality. It went from exhumers so thick you couldn't swing a cat around without hitting one, to ghost belts.

Our opposition to this is twofold: One, ganking is fun. Won't deny it. This nerf all but removes it. Sad, but oh well.
Two, and more importantly: this creates a virtual risk-free activity in eve. Low/Nul barges can still be killed, but hisec gets concord, so EHP past a certain level means guaranteed surivival. Low risk/reward? Try no risk for reward.

And yes, our efforts DID result in hisec mining being worthwhile for the first time in...a looong time. Smart miners who fit something called "tanks" to their exhumers and were semi-active at the game could easily shrug off attacks and avoid them. And make isk hand over fist. Good luck with that once this nerf hits; trit's gonna fall like a rock within a few weeks.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#134 - 2012-07-25 17:50:19 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dosnix
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
it's ironic, however, that you speak of "making friends" when you solo afk mine in hisec in a hulk and demand that CCP makes you 100% safe


I do? Please, link me a post I've made about a) my highsec mining adventures, or b) any posts I've made asking CCP to make my highsec mining adventures risk-free. Oh, what's that? You can't? Well then, it appears you may be just talking out of your ass.


considering that you're probably just some guy who recycles forum alts i'm not going to bother hth


Of course not. Too much :effort: right? Good call. Independent thought and action is well beyond your means*snip*.


okay are you going to actually counter my points or just smear nonsense all over this thread :shobon:

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#135 - 2012-07-25 17:50:28 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
HAG dropped the volume of highsec mining by over 50% according to Diagoras. You're welcome.


This is false. Diagoras' Tweets didn't attribute the reduction in highsec mining volume to any one specific event. I'm not surprised that you would make that reach and do it for him, but doing so is disingenuous at best and a blatant lie at worst. You're welcome.


Well I guess people just stopped mining for no reason at all despite it being 2x as profitable, then...

http://hulkageddon.goonswarm.com/
We're up to almost 9000 exhumer kills for god's sake.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#136 - 2012-07-25 17:53:24 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Are you claiming that somehow barges did not need the attention?.. or are you just whining as always?


generally ships need attention when they are underused

hulks, mackinaws, covetors and retrievers are anything but underused


Because there were SO MANY functional alternatives. Almost as many as we have in frigates. Oh wait...

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Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#137 - 2012-07-25 17:54:45 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Are you claiming that somehow barges did not need the attention?.. or are you just whining as always?


generally ships need attention when they are underused

hulks, mackinaws, covetors and retrievers are anything but underused


Because there were SO MANY functional alternatives. Almost as many as we have in frigates. Oh wait...


Did You Know that people mined in battleships before the introduction of barges and exhumers?

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Suqq Madiq
#138 - 2012-07-25 18:01:03 UTC
Fuujin wrote:
Our opposition to this is twofold: One, ganking is fun. Won't deny it. This nerf all but removes it. Sad, but oh well.


I actually agree with the first part. Ganking is fun. But these changes do not remove it altogether as you would suggest. Not by a long shot. Increasing Barge and Exhumer EHP means you won't be able to gank a 300mil ISK hull with a 10m ISK hull, but you'll still be able to pull it off with minimal effort and a few friends.

Fuujin wrote:
Two, and more importantly: this creates a virtual risk-free activity in eve. Low/Nul barges can still be killed, but hisec gets concord, so EHP past a certain level means guaranteed surivival. Low risk/reward? Try no risk for reward.


Another myth. They're increasing EHP, not making the ships indestructible. You speak of "guaranteed surivival(sic)" as if there is some magical bubble of immunity surrounding ships in highsec resulting in no risk whatsoever. Undocking is always a risk, no matter what ship you're in.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#139 - 2012-07-25 18:01:16 UTC
Fuujin wrote:
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
i mean this change literally benefits me because i have isk invested in high-ends which will actually be used in manufacturing when lowends drop back down, but i dislike the idea of risk-free hisec mining


If this change really benefited you as much as you claim, you wouldn't be depositing vast quantities of your tears all over every thread involving Barge and Exhumer buffs. And nobody actually believes mining is risk-free. Every ship in the game is gankable if you use the right tools and have enough friends to pull it off. The upcoming changes do nothing to alter that, except maybe forcing people to make more friends. Which is just madness in an MMO. Roll



The difference being that freighters and orcas haul billions, and the only other hisec ships to warrant the effort are blinged out incursion/mission runners, also worth billions.


As for the proof of the bot population: That's easily answered. Ice Interdiction: in the beginning, there were 30+ macks in an ice belt, mindlessly working away. After a few days of concentrated ganks, the bot population went away--they migrated to other regions where their ISK generation wouldn't be encumbered. The remaining population was the humans too dumb to realize this basic economic reality. It went from exhumers so thick you couldn't swing a cat around without hitting one, to ghost belts.

Our opposition to this is twofold: One, ganking is fun. Won't deny it. This nerf all but removes it. Sad, but oh well.
Two, and more importantly: this creates a virtual risk-free activity in eve. Low/Nul barges can still be killed, but hisec gets concord, so EHP past a certain level means guaranteed surivival. Low risk/reward? Try no risk for reward.

And yes, our efforts DID result in hisec mining being worthwhile for the first time in...a looong time. Smart miners who fit something called "tanks" to their exhumers and were semi-active at the game could easily shrug off attacks and avoid them. And make isk hand over fist. Good luck with that once this nerf hits; trit's gonna fall like a rock within a few weeks.



Actually it's CCP's effort to take away Drone alloys that made mining interesting again. You've just disrupted mining activity for a while, then add all the bots CCP actually banned (not your mindless ganking false argument).

So let's resume this to simple words: Drones alloys gone + bots ban (thx CCP and GJ Shreegs) leads to less minerals in the market, making mining actually worthy.
Your contribution to this is undeniable, but absolutely not in those proportions "gankers" in general pretend just like if they weren't there "oulàlà" the game would die: flash news says it wouldn't.

Now how many players got tired and left the game because of this? -can you really answer this question without the "adapt or die" you seem no willing to accept yourself?

Anyway, there's no end ores in high sec therefore not that much profitable as it seems, just make them space love you and go mine uber end ores in null. Now that would be great for the game and the community.

brb
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#140 - 2012-07-25 18:06:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Actually it's CCP's effort to take away Drone alloys that made mining interesting again. You've just disrupted mining activity for a while, then add all the bots CCP actually banned (not your mindless ganking false argument).

So let's resume this to simple words: Drones alloys gone + bots ban (thx CCP and GJ Shreegs) leads to less minerals in the market, making mining actually worthy.
Your contribution to this is undeniable, but absolutely not in those proportions "gankers" in general pretend just like if they weren't there "oulàlà" the game would die: flash news says it wouldn't.

Now how many players got tired and left the game because of this? -can you really answer this question without the "adapt or die" you seem no willing to accept yourself?

Anyway, there's no end ores in high sec therefore not that much profitable as it seems, just make them space love you and go mine uber end ores in null. Now that would be great for the game and the community.


continue to believe that hulkageddon was totally irrelevant and had no effect on hisec mining despite the 15k kills, most of which were in may

continue to believe that hisec mining will remain as profitable as it is now even with substantially reduced ganking and lower-tier barges/exhumers having substantially higher yield and tank than they do now

drone alloys were a significant source of high-ends, not low-ends

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration