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CCP - promoting AFK mining and botting with the new barges.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#21 - 2012-07-25 08:16:15 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
oh look; another person who has never mined in their life or is just plain clueless about how mining works.

37km3 ore bay means nothing when asteroids only contain about 5km3 of ore. -.-


Ice Roids have pop quick, do they?

You're right, the Mack's not gonna be particularly AFK when mining Ore in HS (due to the small roids you mentioned), but it's gonna be able to work for like an hour totally hands off when chewing on Ice.


almost every time i warp in to an ice belt i see macks surrounding an orca, an orca has more space than a mack. nothing is even remotely changing in regards to ice mining.


Because right now, the Mack is like the post-nerf Hulk mining Ice.

Afterwards, the people who use Macks to mine Ice into an Orca (not a high income activity) because they want to be semi-afk, doing one action every ~5-10m, will go pure Macks (maybe an Orca for boosts) and be able to only do one action every ~hour. Maybe even stick the Orca in the belt and do a hauling run an hour.


Wrong, as of now they can do 1 action every 18 or so minutes, doing it every hour won't change that inactivity a lot.

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Ron Maudieu
#22 - 2012-07-25 08:17:41 UTC
I wonder how much isk all of these magical "AFK miners" make, I mean they must make more than 30mil per hour mining in high security space right? Roll

I am happy as a high sec noob miner with the coming changes. Hate me all you want for not wanting to jet can mine or swap ships when using GSCs.

If you are so worried about people AFK mining, why don't you just mine the same rocks that they are or use one of the other 50 billion ways to "PvP mine". Cool
Dave Stark
#23 - 2012-07-25 08:20:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Ron Maudieu wrote:
I wonder how much isk all of these magical "AFK miners" make, I mean they must make more than 30mil per hour mining in high security space right? Roll

I am happy as a high sec noob miner with the coming changes. Hate me all you want for not wanting to jet can mine or swap ships when using GSCs.

If you are so worried about people AFK mining, why don't you just mine the same rocks that they are or use one of the other 50 billion ways to "PvP mine". Cool


currently a hulk with max orca boosts mining scodite is getting ~31m an hour, however with hauling and ****** little asteroids popping etc in reality it's not 31m. however 31m is the mathematical max.
and that's using isk/m3 values from http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore which, without fail, over-estimates the isk/m3 values.

woops that's t1 strips, t2 with t2 crystals is an extra 5m on top of that.
Ron Maudieu
#24 - 2012-07-25 08:21:37 UTC
Exactly, and at that point it's not AFK mining. I think the OP is a bit clueless on the matter.
Pipa Porto
#25 - 2012-07-25 08:24:22 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
oh look; another person who has never mined in their life or is just plain clueless about how mining works.

37km3 ore bay means nothing when asteroids only contain about 5km3 of ore. -.-


Ice Roids have pop quick, do they?

You're right, the Mack's not gonna be particularly AFK when mining Ore in HS (due to the small roids you mentioned), but it's gonna be able to work for like an hour totally hands off when chewing on Ice.


almost every time i warp in to an ice belt i see macks surrounding an orca, an orca has more space than a mack. nothing is even remotely changing in regards to ice mining.


Because right now, the Mack is like the post-nerf Hulk mining Ice.

Afterwards, the people who use Macks to mine Ice into an Orca (not a high income activity) because they want to be semi-afk, doing one action every ~5-10m, will go pure Macks (maybe an Orca for boosts) and be able to only do one action every ~hour. Maybe even stick the Orca in the belt and do a hauling run an hour.


Wrong, as of now they can do 1 action every 18 or so minutes, doing it every hour won't change that inactivity a lot.


3x isn't a big difference? And fixing it for 18 minutes requires careful timing and an Orca. The new Mack is Ron Popeil's dream machine.

But that's not really a big deal, tbh. I just wanted to point out that Roids have never been as afkable as Ice, and the Mackinaw boost allows it to operate with less human intervention than it currently needs.

I'm bothered by the random tank buff the Mack is getting. It dilutes the Skiff's role, and it means that you really won't need to keep an eye out for gankers as you do now. Visa versa with the Skiff's giant ore hold.

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-RubyPorto
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#26 - 2012-07-25 08:31:57 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:

3x isn't a big difference? And fixing it for 18 minutes requires careful timing and an Orca. The new Mack is Ron Popeil's dream machine.

But that's not really a big deal, tbh. I just wanted to point out that Roids have never been as afkable as Ice, and the Mackinaw boost allows it to operate with less human intervention than it currently needs.

I'm bothered by the random tank buff the Mack is getting. It dilutes the Skiff's role, and it means that you really won't need to keep an eye out for gankers as you do now. Visa versa with the Skiff's giant ore hold.


Not really, 18 minutes means you can go lunch and only get back to empty the thing once, you can go poop in peace, you can do a lot of stuff even with 18 minutes. 1 hour is even more but I think past the 10 minutes thresold the "AFK friendliness factor" is achieved.

As for the Orca, who uses an Orca today will use it tomorrow, possibly with Hulks. Who today uses an expanded exhumer is not using an Orca nor will use it past patch.

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Dave Stark
#27 - 2012-07-25 08:35:49 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
As for the Orca, who uses an Orca today will use it tomorrow, possibly with Hulks. Who today uses an expanded exhumer is not using an Orca nor will use it past patch.


i think there's a notable exception to that.
people like me; 2 accounts. 1 hulk 1 orca. yes, we know 2 hulks is more yield but the orca/hulk combo is a massive logistical ease for us. after this 2x macks will be more yield and less logistics. not to mention you're only losing cycle bonuses not yield bonuses.
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#28 - 2012-07-25 08:38:38 UTC
The only change is giving miners the possibility of "mining in battleships" without training for a battleship.

I expect the yield on large-tank-barges and large-ore-bay-barges to be similar to battleships fitted for it.
Dave Stark
#29 - 2012-07-25 10:42:22 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
The only change is giving miners the possibility of "mining in battleships" without training for a battleship.

I expect the yield on large-tank-barges and large-ore-bay-barges to be similar to battleships fitted for it.


then i also expect my skiff to do the same dps as a rokh.
Pipa Porto
#30 - 2012-07-25 11:05:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
The only change is giving miners the possibility of "mining in battleships" without training for a battleship.

I expect the yield on large-tank-barges and large-ore-bay-barges to be similar to battleships fitted for it.


They are.

With the new CPU rigs, the Rokh can pull in a crazy amount of Ore.

Maxed out (accidentally included a 3%, but that's in all the numbers), a Rokh mines 47,543.5m3/hr
compared to a Hulk with no MLUs (the same as the new Skiff/Mack with 2MLUs), yield of 45,973.4m3/hr
And a Maxed Hulk's 54,621m3/hr.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2012-07-25 12:27:49 UTC
Marconus Orion wrote:
Major Bibi wrote:
look at it on the brightside , Gankers will need to work in teams and so promoting teamwork , it is a MMO rafterall

Remember what happened to the last thing that promoted team work in high sec? Nerf bat to Incursions face!


yeah 140m/hr in risk-free isk was totally balanced

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2012-07-25 12:30:13 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
why would you subscribe to a game just to mine imaginary minerals


Probably for the same reason people join a 50k man blob to fight imaginary enemies ... and to suicide on people mining imaginary minerals.


while I'm sure you've never shot anything but an NPC, those "50k man blobs" don't fight "imaginary" enemies because there are actually other people behind them

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-07-25 12:30:16 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Marconus Orion wrote:
Major Bibi wrote:
look at it on the brightside , Gankers will need to work in teams and so promoting teamwork , it is a MMO rafterall

Remember what happened to the last thing that promoted team work in high sec? Nerf bat to Incursions face!


yeah 140m/hr in risk-free isk was totally balanced


Are we talking about incursions or technetium? ;)

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2012-07-25 12:34:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
dexington wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Marconus Orion wrote:
Major Bibi wrote:
look at it on the brightside , Gankers will need to work in teams and so promoting teamwork , it is a MMO rafterall

Remember what happened to the last thing that promoted team work in high sec? Nerf bat to Incursions face!


yeah 140m/hr in risk-free isk was totally balanced


Are we talking about incursions or technetium? ;)


http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12204197
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12842852

yeah tech is totally risk free, nobody ever fought over it ever

unlike incursions, of course, which were very high-risk which is why everyone flew 10b officer-fit vindicators, because they enjoy living on the edge in hisec

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-07-25 12:44:56 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:
Might as well hand them golden tickets because the new barges are exactly the kind of ships AFK miners and botters will appreciate. My question is...

Why are you promoting AFK mining and botting CCP?


Not true at all... so your question is sadly irrelevant. Botting is against the EULA and they have never supported it. Being afk however is not.against the EULA There are many reason to be away from your keyboard....most of the time for a short period only - but no matter what the reason it produces nothing to be afk. Unlike botting multi boxing is not only not against the EULA; it is promoted by CCP (look at the difference if you are confused....) I know you like to mischaracterize all miners as botters to sell your whiney point. Still, I'm not hearing you whine about botting mission runners with "ungankable" ships...I guess cuz you like those ships. The truth again is differnt than you present.. the new ships are not "ungankable"... they are just sturdier.. as they should be.

Are you claiming that somehow barges did not need the attention?.. or are you just whining as always?

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-07-25 12:47:47 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Are you claiming that somehow barges did not need the attention?.. or are you just whining as always?


generally ships need attention when they are underused

hulks, mackinaws, covetors and retrievers are anything but underused

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Covert0ne
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#37 - 2012-07-25 12:50:20 UTC
I have the solution.

Add a new module that allows the player to launch a mining bomb. Said bomb instantly destroys all asteroids and transports the minerals to the nearest station.

Mining is now fixed. /thread.

War Crime Syndicate are recruiting!
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2012-07-25 12:51:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Quote:
I'm bothered by the random tank buff the Mack is getting. It dilutes the Skiff's role, and it means that you really won't need to keep an eye out for gankers as you do now..



really?! random huh? The Mack had a real problem fitting a tank up til now. with not enough resourse to fit a proper tank, something did need to be done. are you pretending it didn't? miners will always have to watch for gankers. cry baby.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2012-07-25 12:53:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Richard Desturned wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Are you claiming that somehow barges did not need the attention?.. or are you just whining as always?


generally ships need attention when they are underused


that's one reason anyway....

Quote:
hulks, mackinaws, covetors and retrievers are anything but underused


hogwash, hulks are not changed in the positive with a smaller hold and nothing else... and yes, retrevers and covetors are underused.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-07-25 12:55:36 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Quote:
I'm bothered by the random tank buff the Mack is getting. It dilutes the Skiff's role, and it means that you really won't need to keep an eye out for gankers as you do now..



really?! random huh? The Mack had a real problem fitting a tank up til now. with not enough resourse to fit a proper tank, something did need to be done. are you pretending it didn't? miners will always have to watch for gankers. cry baby.


yeah because the appropriate response was to give it the EHP of a well-tanked HAC without the need for any hardeners

"miners can't figure out how to fit their ships, let's just do it for them"

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration