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Can a nightmare handle C3s?
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Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-07-24 14:57:34 UTC
this is just a random thought; i have no concrete plans yet but it kind of interests me.
since the nightmare has two free highs and requires no ammo, it would be a semidecent ship to solo anoms. if we get salvage drones in the near future, you could even fit a cloak and be somewhat safe from ganks as long as you stay aligned. my question is: do you believe the nightmare can handle C3 anoms (tank, tracking, dps etc) with a reasonably cheap fit? if not, why not?

I should buy an Ishtar.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#2 - 2012-07-24 15:02:16 UTC
Nightmares have such horrible capacitor that they might die to the neut.

Or do C3's have significant neuting?
Gudrun Ellecon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-07-24 15:28:39 UTC
In my opinion:

Fortification Frontier Stronghold - BS neut at the end is way too dangerous
Outpost Frontier Stronghold - Should be able to do this
Solar Cell - Probably can handle it
The Oruze Construct - Again, BS neut

Radars/Mags: Don't do it without support.

I doubt it's worth the risk to do it solo. If you brought logi or a friend in a BS with cap transfer, you could do all the sites without problems.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-07-24 15:30:51 UTC
I havent had any cap issues in C3 sites. There are some cruisers that neut. But they die fast.

The BS that neut have a 75km range, so stay outside of that and they are easy enough. I generally burn them down before they get in range.

Dual boxing Tengus for C3's btw.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-07-24 15:42:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
Derath Ellecon wrote:
I havent had any cap issues in C3 sites. There are some cruisers that neut. But they die fast.

The BS that neut have a 75km range, so stay outside of that and they are easy enough. I generally burn them down before they get in range.

Dual boxing Tengus for C3's btw.

thank you for stating the obvious. the point is to NOT dualbox tengus all day every day.

@topic: i'm not so familiar with pulses; will they outrange the 75km BS neut with scorch? if so, cap should not be that much of an issue. also, i'm still interested if anyone has anything to say on tracking, especially against frigs. or should i maybe switch to tachs and warp in @ 50?

I should buy an Ishtar.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-07-24 15:52:08 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
I havent had any cap issues in C3 sites. There are some cruisers that neut. But they die fast.

The BS that neut have a 75km range, so stay outside of that and they are easy enough. I generally burn them down before they get in range.

Dual boxing Tengus for C3's btw.

thank you for stating the obvious. the point is to NOT dualbox tengus all day every day.

@topic: i'm not so familiar with pulses; will they outrange the 75km BS neut with scorch? if so, cap should not be that much of an issue. also, i'm still interested if anyone has anything to say on tracking, especially against frigs. or should i maybe switch to tachs and warp in @ 50?


No need to be a d1ck. I only mentioned the Tengu's as reference for my comments.

Given that, how about the standard response then? Go figure it out yourself.

BS neut range is 75KM. Stay outside of that and you have no worries. Cruiser and frig neuts dont seem to be an issue since they die fast.

Someone was nice enough to add DPS values in eve-survival. I'll even be nice enough to link the anoms

http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=FortificationFrontierStronghold
http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=OutpostFrontierStronghold
http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=SolarCell
http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=TheOruzeConstruct

Build your tank around that.


TLDR: See if you can fit a nightmare that can kill the BS at 75km range, use eve survival to figure out your tank.
Gudrun Ellecon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-07-24 15:53:27 UTC
@daniel: A well fit nightmare with max skills and scorch will have an optimal around 65km, and about 15km of falloff. Kiting the neuting BS would be incredibly difficult and/or impossible. That leaves tachs, which I don't think have enough tracking for most of the sub BS rats. Also, sleepers hate drones, which would make killing the small stuff so much harder.

If I get really bored tonight, I might try this out on sisi. I'll let you know.
Le'Mon Tichim
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-07-24 15:56:45 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
I havent had any cap issues in C3 sites. There are some cruisers that neut. But they die fast.

The BS that neut have a 75km range, so stay outside of that and they are easy enough. I generally burn them down before they get in range.

Dual boxing Tengus for C3's btw.

thank you for stating the obvious. the point is to NOT dualbox tengus all day every day.

@topic: i'm not so familiar with pulses; will they outrange the 75km BS neut with scorch? if so, cap should not be that much of an issue. also, i'm still interested if anyone has anything to say on tracking, especially against frigs. or should i maybe switch to tachs and warp in @ 50?



I imagine you'd want Tachyon's, since I don't think Scorch with one or two TE's would get out that far. If it did, you'd be skirting the safe range of those neuts. Tach's, however, give you the range plus buffer.

Can you hear them? They are calling to us. It is beautiful. http://thegreattichim.wordpress.com/
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-07-24 16:03:03 UTC
BTW,

If you really want something laser based to us no ammo, just use a legion. They run C3 anoms fine.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-07-24 16:35:57 UTC
the problem with tachs would be that you shoot stuff well out of tractor range. on the other hand you will probably have to anyway since tanking the neuts is not an option... oh well, guess it's marauders or dualboxing after all.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#11 - 2012-07-24 16:38:32 UTC
A well fit nightmare _should_ really be killing cruisers and BS so fast that neuting never becomes a problem.

The only place I can see it being an issue is the last wave on one of the mags and one of the radars where they almost certainly will be severely pushed to kill the battleship wave before overwhelmed and struggle to kill the scramming frigs on that wave quickly to - making it hard to warp in and out at leisure to kill the battleships.

In combination with another ship that can kill frigs quickly as well as put decent dps on other ships tho it would work a treat.

Still not sure whats wrong with using a drake or if you have to a tengu in a C3.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-07-24 16:50:48 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
the problem with tachs would be that you shoot stuff well out of tractor range. on the other hand you will probably have to anyway since tanking the neuts is not an option... oh well, guess it's marauders or dualboxing after all.



So wait, you want to be able to salvage as well? Yea that would be completely painful in a nightmare. Pretty much everything will be outside of tractor range. You only have 2 utility highs so one tractor and one salvager?

Even a marauder only gets a max of 48km range with T2 tractors, which is pretty short for C3 sites.
chris elliot
Treasury Department
Plug N Play
#13 - 2012-07-24 21:14:07 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
*snip*

thank you for stating the obvious. the point is to NOT dualbox tengus all day every day.

@topic: i'm not so familiar with pulses; will they outrange the 75km BS neut with scorch? if so, cap should not be that much of an issue. also, i'm still interested if anyone has anything to say on tracking, especially against frigs. or should i maybe switch to tachs and warp in @ 50?



Here is one way of looking at what Darth was saying.

Price of nightmare hull currently: ~800 mill + fittings ~ 1 bill.
Anoms it can run: Only local scan anoms
Chances of dying or having to warp out: Medium
Time to complete: Quite a while

vs.

Price of two baseline tengus and fittings for c3 sites: ~ 1 bill.
Anoms the pair can run: Everything
Chances of dying or having to warp out: Almost nill
Time to complete: Short
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
#14 - 2012-07-24 21:32:37 UTC
I say go for it.

We can't have enough idiots doing C2 and c3 sites in pirate or faction battleships. You also shouldn't bother with scouts, and yes aligning will ALWAYS save you !

Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#15 - 2012-07-24 21:46:51 UTC
chris elliot wrote:

Here is one way of looking at what Darth was saying.

Price of nightmare hull currently: ~800 mill + fittings ~ 1 bill.
Anoms it can run: Only local scan anoms
Chances of dying or having to warp out: Medium
Time to complete: Quite a while

vs.

Price of two baseline tengus and fittings for c3 sites: ~ 1 bill.
Anoms the pair can run: Everything
Chances of dying or having to warp out: Almost nill
Time to complete: Short


Nightmare will blat BS and cruisers very fast so its not gonna be too long running the sites. If you want something a bit more interesting to dual box in C3s and aren't so concerned about making yourself even more tasty bait then a webbing loki + nightmare would be a good combination.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-07-24 22:32:41 UTC
Ya Huei wrote:
I say go for it.

We can't have enough idiots doing C2 and c3 sites in pirate or faction battleships. You also shouldn't bother with scouts, and yes aligning will ALWAYS save you !


thank you for your stupid condescending comment. people like you make the world a better place.

in case anyone wonders: i had forgotten that without bonuses tractor beams are not very useful, especially in wspace with a slow ship. i think we can agree that if you want any efficiency in c3s, marauders and/or dual-boxing are the way to go.

I should buy an Ishtar.
joes Bazooka
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-07-24 23:35:52 UTC
chris elliot wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
*snip*

thank you for stating the obvious. the point is to NOT dualbox tengus all day every day.

@topic: i'm not so familiar with pulses; will they outrange the 75km BS neut with scorch? if so, cap should not be that much of an issue. also, i'm still interested if anyone has anything to say on tracking, especially against frigs. or should i maybe switch to tachs and warp in @ 50?



Here is one way of looking at what Darth was saying.

Price of nightmare hull currently: ~800 mill + fittings ~ 1 bill.
Anoms it can run: Only local scan anoms
Chances of dying or having to warp out: Medium
Time to complete: Quite a while

vs.

Price of two baseline tengus and fittings for c3 sites: ~ 1 bill.
Anoms the pair can run: Everything
Chances of dying or having to warp out: Almost nill
Time to complete: Short


this
QT McWhiskers
MultiPass Inc.
The 5th Seal
#18 - 2012-07-25 00:25:35 UTC
I was going to troll this but yall have already done that. You see a c3 has very little in the way of Neuts, or dps for that matter. Nightmare has very good deeps and can just roll most of the sleepers there. Warp in at 90 and then wait for the sleepers to approach, shooting the frigs first.

The only site you gotta watch out on is the oruze. There are just way too many Neuts. I would avoid the oruze there are usually enough ffs ota and solar cells to make enough money off of.
Keith Planck
Hi-Sec Huggers
#19 - 2012-07-25 07:07:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Keith Planck
[Machariel, C3Mach]

Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
'Copasetic' Particle Field Acceleration
Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
True Sansha Large EMP Smartbomb

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I

______________

This is a dumbed down version of the fit I use to solo C3 sites in my Mach.
With enough bling you dont need the Heavy Cap Booster at all but its still great to save you in a pinch <3

The faction smartbomb is just AMAZING. It clears out frigate so much faster then drones allowing me to use OGRE II and some light ECMs.

I also use faction ammo since the majority of your tank is Cap-Buffer and DPS ;)

♞
Keith Planck
Hi-Sec Huggers
#20 - 2012-07-25 07:13:18 UTC
[Machariel, C3 Mach]

Damage Control II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer

Gistum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pith B-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Gistum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Cap Recharger II

800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
True Sansha Large EMP Smartbomb

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

_________________________________________

If I didn't have to have certain rigs to solo C4s this is what I would fly in C3s, gets 1000 DPS stable tank but can burn up to 2400!

♞
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