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FW: Faction Standings Mechanic Exploit.
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Scrutt5
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-07-24 14:43:34 UTC
Guys,

Do the community believe that running an alt corp with toons around the +10 faction standings mark, enabeling a pilot within that corp to openly engage and kill friendly militia pilots without the fear of being kicked from fw an exploit ?

Must be a standings exploit in my opinion.

Simple fix, individual pilots with standings lower than 0.05 should not be allowed to participate in fw until the standings are fixed.
Dusenman
Sensible People
Sigma Grindset
#2 - 2012-07-24 15:41:17 UTC
It is a hard issue to resolve. I would first look into a global flagging for someone who has been engaging fellow militia pilots. Similar to the standing we already have in game. I am not saying you should flag for one offense but maybe after so many.

While you have provided a simple fix it does not help with the corp standings issue. If I remember correctly a corp will be removed if there standings are not kept high enough. So my question is, how would you remove a play from a player control corp?

GM Homonoia: In other words; feel free to use the tactic, but don't be an utter and total ***.

CCP Tallest_: _And by "we have made it so", I mean Punkturis has made it so.
Rengerel en Distel
#3 - 2012-07-24 15:53:00 UTC
most people that do this tend to jump between 2 or 3 corps so the host corp doesn't get kicked. the only way to penalize them would be not to allow them to join any other corp in FW for a week. I doubt CCP will spend the time on it though, as it's an edge case, and they don't like coding towards the edges.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Fidelium Mortis
Minor Major Miners LLC
#4 - 2012-07-24 15:55:41 UTC
Scrutt5 wrote:
Guys,

Do the community believe that running an alt corp with toons around the +10 faction standings mark, enabeling a pilot within that corp to openly engage and kill friendly militia pilots without the fear of being kicked from fw an exploit ?

Must be a standings exploit in my opinion.

Simple fix, individual pilots with standings lower than 0.05 should not be allowed to participate in fw until the standings are fixed.





You mean.... isn't it crazy how Adolf has been able to do what he does for so long?

ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#5 - 2012-07-24 16:16:24 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Dusenman wrote:
It is a hard issue to resolve.
It's actually very easy to solve. Every member of militia must have a nominally positive faction standing. "Your corporation will be booted from FW if your member is still in corp after downtime." "If you accept this member into your corp, your corporation will be immediately booted from your FW alliance and/or FW." Done.
Dusenman
Sensible People
Sigma Grindset
#6 - 2012-07-24 17:13:21 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Dusenman wrote:
It is a hard issue to resolve.
It's actually very easy to solve. Every member of militia must have a nominally positive faction standing. "Your corporation will be booted from FW if your member is still in corp after downtime." "If you accept this member into your corp, your corporation will be immediately booted from your FW alliance and/or FW." Done.


No argument but what is being said is that, pilots have corps set up with the ability to not get removed.

example:

bad guy is -10
2 others are +10

so.. as I understand the math: (-10) + (+10) + (+10) / 3 = (+3.33)

Therefore the player nor the corp will be kicked.

Please correct me if I am not understanding the problem.

GM Homonoia: In other words; feel free to use the tactic, but don't be an utter and total ***.

CCP Tallest_: _And by "we have made it so", I mean Punkturis has made it so.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#7 - 2012-07-24 18:36:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
I think it's fair play TBH.. People put spy alts in the other Militias all the time, in Gal's case they have had actual alt corps so they could farm Caldari missions/spy (Screaming Seagulls to name one). I can think of 2 Gal militia booster alts off the top of my head that are in Caldari Militia but are alts and give fleet boosts to their Gal mains.

Hell I have half the mind to use a Gal alt to Awox these kind of fleet boosters be it neutrals or in the Militia.. I say until you start getting kicked out of FW & start losing Faction standings for assisting WT's (fleet boosts/ remote reps ect..ect) of the apposing Militia's then Awoxing is fair play.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#8 - 2012-07-24 19:01:38 UTC
Dusenman wrote:

No argument but what is being said is that, pilots have corps set up with the ability to not get removed.
example:
bad guy is -10
2 others are +10
so.. as I understand the math: (-10) + (+10) + (+10) / 3 = (+3.33)
Therefore the player nor the corp will be kicked. Please correct me if I am not understanding the problem.
You now know how to exploit standings to kill fellow militia members. I was suggesting a simple, and easy solution to this "feature".

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#9 - 2012-07-24 19:49:56 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Dusenman wrote:
It is a hard issue to resolve.
It's actually very easy to solve. Every member of militia must have a nominally positive faction standing. "Your corporation will be booted from FW if your member is still in corp after downtime." "If you accept this member into your corp, your corporation will be immediately booted from your FW alliance and/or FW." Done.

Doesn't even have to be positive faction standing as long as the individuals standing is checked .. could keep it in line with Concords limits for easy reference, I'd suggest making it -4.5 (exactly 5 from joining requirement) which is the "criminal everywhere" level.

Now throw in racial station guns firing on traitors (and enemies) and being a **** suddenly loses its lustre Big smile
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#10 - 2012-07-24 20:10:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Xuixien
X Gallentius wrote:
Dusenman wrote:
It is a hard issue to resolve.
It's actually very easy to solve. Every member of militia must have a nominally positive faction standing. "Your corporation will be booted from FW if your member is still in corp after downtime." "If you accept this member into your corp, your corporation will be immediately booted from your FW alliance and/or FW." Done.


This.

If they coded for this mechanic, a lot of bad trash would get kicked out of FW, and I'm not opposed to that at all.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-07-24 20:33:16 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Dusenman wrote:
It is a hard issue to resolve.
It's actually very easy to solve. Every member of militia must have a nominally positive faction standing. "Your corporation will be booted from FW if your member is still in corp after downtime." "If you accept this member into your corp, your corporation will be immediately booted from your FW alliance and/or FW." Done.


They actually have to give the corp a bit more time to boot the offending member. If the member has roles, they need a 24 hour stasis period. Let's say that if the member falls below the threshold, they must be booted within 2 downtimes or the entire/corp alliance is removed from FW (or corp is removed from FW alliance).

.
Rigel Vex
Hull Warning
#12 - 2012-07-24 20:55:57 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Dusenman wrote:
It is a hard issue to resolve.
It's actually very easy to solve. Every member of militia must have a nominally positive faction standing. "Your corporation will be booted from FW if your member is still in corp after downtime." "If you accept this member into your corp, your corporation will be immediately booted from your FW alliance and/or FW." Done.


If they do this I'd totally be out of the militia forever! Rigel no likey people whoring his plex's
Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#13 - 2012-07-24 21:25:18 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Dusenman wrote:
It is a hard issue to resolve.
It's actually very easy to solve. Every member of militia must have a nominally positive faction standing. "Your corporation will be booted from FW if your member is still in corp after downtime." "If you accept this member into your corp, your corporation will be immediately booted from your FW alliance and/or FW." Done.


This.

If they coded for this mechanic, a lot of bad trash would get kicked out of FW, and I'm not opposed to that at all.

Any threshold above -5.0 is too high. -0.05 would raise the barrier of entry far too substantially.

The moar you cry the less you pee
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#14 - 2012-07-24 21:30:45 UTC
Pinky Feldman wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Dusenman wrote:
It is a hard issue to resolve.
It's actually very easy to solve. Every member of militia must have a nominally positive faction standing. "Your corporation will be booted from FW if your member is still in corp after downtime." "If you accept this member into your corp, your corporation will be immediately booted from your FW alliance and/or FW." Done.


This.

If they coded for this mechanic, a lot of bad trash would get kicked out of FW, and I'm not opposed to that at all.


Any threshold above -5.0 is too high. -0.05 would raise the barrier of entry far too substantially.


What's so hard about staying positive? Just don't shoot friendly militia.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Garr Earthbender
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-07-24 22:33:48 UTC
I think when I joined the Qcats back in the day, I was actually running hi sec missions for the Amarr Navy. I'm pretty sure that my standing for the FDU was lower than -.05. That being said....... I don't like those douches and am in favor of some way of kicking these dudes from milita.

-Scissors is overpowered, rock is fine. -Paper
Maz3r Rakum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-07-24 22:38:20 UTC
Scrutt5 wrote:
Guys,

Do the community believe that running an alt corp with toons around the +10 faction standings mark, enabeling a pilot within that corp to openly engage and kill friendly militia pilots without the fear of being kicked from fw an exploit ?

Must be a standings exploit in my opinion.

Simple fix, individual pilots with standings lower than 0.05 should not be allowed to participate in fw until the standings are fixed.






Show me on the doll where Adolph touched you.
Dynast
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#17 - 2012-07-24 23:01:52 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Dusenman wrote:
It is a hard issue to resolve.
It's actually very easy to solve. Every member of militia must have a nominally positive faction standing. "Your corporation will be booted from FW if your member is still in corp after downtime." "If you accept this member into your corp, your corporation will be immediately booted from your FW alliance and/or FW." Done.


This.

If they coded for this mechanic, a lot of bad trash would get kicked out of FW, and I'm not opposed to that at all.

Thirded. Asinine mechanics like we currently have are no fun for anyone but the trolls.
Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-07-24 23:48:01 UTC
Even if this were "fixed" it would almost be pointless because a person could just as easily kill militia members with a pirate alt.

If its being surprise ganked by a fellow militia member that has you up in arms, maybe you should fit your merlin with more tank and dps and fewer warp core stabs?
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#19 - 2012-07-24 23:59:30 UTC
Whar Target wrote:
Even if this were "fixed" it would almost be pointless because a person could just as easily kill militia members with a pirate alt.

If its being surprise ganked by a fellow militia member that has you up in arms, maybe you should fit your merlin with more tank and dps and fewer warp core stabs?


By George I think we are on to something now..
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#20 - 2012-07-25 00:00:53 UTC
Whar Target wrote:
Even if this were "fixed" it would almost be pointless because a person could just as easily kill militia members with a pirate alt.

If its being surprise ganked by a fellow militia member that has you up in arms, maybe you should fit your merlin with more tank and dps and fewer warp core stabs?


Preemptively shooting a pirate doesn't incur standings loss.
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