These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Crime & Punishment

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Tuskers Announcing Third Party Ransom Service

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#41 - 2012-07-24 16:03:52 UTC
Strider Hiryu wrote:
Just to clarify, does a tuskers representative fly to the place where to ransom is occuring?

Seeing as you guys only fly frigs that shouldnt be too much of a problem.

I can only see one problem with this service you offer.
If the person being ransomed gives tuskers the isk, the pirate let him go, but the person being ransomed simply says he is still being tackled, who will get the isk? Without someone on grid to confirm this, I'm assuming the person being ransomed will get thier isk back?

Anyways, good luck in this venture and may your frigates forever fly fast!


No, we do it remotely in the channel.

The isk is held by the Tusker until the pirate provides evidence of the ransomed person safely left the situation - something like a quick screenshot showing the target not in local and/or not on grid or something similar, or the person being ransomed says that he's safe.

The myth that we only fly frigates is patently false - http://tuskers.killmail.org/?a=corp_detail&crp_id=24195&view=ships_weapons&m=07&y=2012. Most of us like flying frigates, but there are others who prefer to roam in larger ships and most of our gangs are not frigate based, such as the one you saw last night and stepped aside for.

Keyanu wrote:


Quote:
This service is generally not aimed at larger, more established pirate corporations/alliances. Those organizations should have their own built up reputation. However, if they move outside their comfort zone (for the united this would be outside the hagilur pocket...) and try to ransom people there, they might not be as well known and the ransom could fail. That's where this service comes in.

This service is basicially for two groups of users:

1) Smaller, less known pirate corporations who can use our reputation to secure a ransom
2) Larger pirate corporations who are trying to ransom in areas they are not well known in, but we are.

Hope that helps!


Why didn't you state this in the beginning and target those who would most likely use your service?


We contacted smaller, less known pirate corporations (that we know of) ourselves, but by contacting the larger ones who might know other, smaller corporations, we hoped to widen the amount of corporations we could reach. So yes, we did do this, albeit not as directly as we should have in hindsight. Some people are just sensitive I guess, as this thread shows. Roll

Kaeda Maxwell wrote:
We already have our own internal rule that people must honour ransoms if they offer them, but an initiative like this might lend credibility and resolve trust issues in 'greater New Eden'. And is therefore at the core a very good idea imho.

I have a few questions though;

How will you let the bears ignorant enough to even be in a position where their ransom worthy ship is in a ransom situation know about this service? Because ultimately whether other pirates trust you is irrelevant what matters if the bears know about it and trust you sufficiently. And the bears that end up in lowsec tackled and dying aren't generally the smart ones or very deeply immersed in the larger EVE community.

And while a pirate might be happy to trust you with holding onto his ISK for a little while, why exactly do they trust you with where their richest hunting grounds are, because beyond 5% you also gather quite a bit of other information in the process and you're the competition you know...

But overall the idea is solid, have you considered adding bounty escrow to the repertoire?


Thanks Kaeda!

Yes there is an issue with many bears not being aware of us, despite us being a "household name" for pirate corporations IMO. Hopefully, enough of them are aware of us (judging by local in high sec when we pass through, when we enter wormholes or even when they roam low sec) via podcasts, our blogs, eve uni talks etc. for a sizable amount to agree once they hear we are involved. Perhaps a series of testimonials from "e-famous" players could help convince others?

To be honest, we roam far, we're adaptable enough to fight most gangs/targets we run across and we have no blues to not run into issues such as having too few targets. Most information that you can gleam from a ransom offered by this service would appear on a killboard instead - system, time of day, people involved, ships involved etc. and we do (individually) browse killboards of other pirates to see how our competition is doing, therefore this information would be out there in one form or another.

We could expand the service, but we're just stepping into it and would like to ease into the whole 3rd party deal...
Jaxley
The Tuskers
#42 - 2012-07-24 16:13:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaxley
Rivur'Tam wrote:
Could somebody please give me a like, i have nothing non troll to say and would really like a like.

I'm like totally available to mediate between you and people willing to give you a like no problem.

Terms as they stand:

  • Rivur wants a like
  • You might feel good about giving Rivur a like


In case anyone considers giving Rivur a like, but isn't sure whether or not it may make him/her feel good about it, like this post.

Once I can confirm that I indeed have recieved the like, I will get back to you whether or not you felt good about giving it.

Once you confirm that you did indeed feel good about liking my post and that giving likes to the likes of Rivur may likely please you, I will give Rivur the like.
Strider Hiryu
Insane Shadow Boxers
#43 - 2012-07-24 16:26:25 UTC
Suleiman Shouaa wrote:
Strider Hiryu wrote:
Just to clarify, does a tuskers representative fly to the place where to ransom is occuring?

Seeing as you guys only fly frigs that shouldnt be too much of a problem.

I can only see one problem with this service you offer.
If the person being ransomed gives tuskers the isk, the pirate let him go, but the person being ransomed simply says he is still being tackled, who will get the isk? Without someone on grid to confirm this, I'm assuming the person being ransomed will get thier isk back?

Anyways, good luck in this venture and may your frigates forever fly fast!


No, we do it remotely in the channel.

The isk is held by the Tusker until the pirate provides evidence of the ransomed person safely left the situation - something like a quick screenshot showing the target not in local and/or not on grid or something similar, or the person being ransomed says that he's safe.

The myth that we only fly frigates is patently false - http://tuskers.killmail.org/?a=corp_detail&crp_id=24195&view=ships_weapons&m=07&y=2012. Most of us like flying frigates, but there are others who prefer to roam in larger ships and most of our gangs are not frigate based, such as the one you saw last night and stepped aside for.

Keyanu wrote:


Quote:
This service is generally not aimed at larger, more established pirate corporations/alliances. Those organizations should have their own built up reputation. However, if they move outside their comfort zone (for the united this would be outside the hagilur pocket...) and try to ransom people there, they might not be as well known and the ransom could fail. That's where this service comes in.

This service is basicially for two groups of users:

1) Smaller, less known pirate corporations who can use our reputation to secure a ransom
2) Larger pirate corporations who are trying to ransom in areas they are not well known in, but we are.

Hope that helps!


Why didn't you state this in the beginning and target those who would most likely use your service?


We contacted smaller, less known pirate corporations (that we know of) ourselves, but by contacting the larger ones who might know other, smaller corporations, we hoped to widen the amount of corporations we could reach. So yes, we did do this, albeit not as directly as we should have in hindsight. Some people are just sensitive I guess, as this thread shows. Roll

Kaeda Maxwell wrote:
We already have our own internal rule that people must honour ransoms if they offer them, but an initiative like this might lend credibility and resolve trust issues in 'greater New Eden'. And is therefore at the core a very good idea imho.

I have a few questions though;

How will you let the bears ignorant enough to even be in a position where their ransom worthy ship is in a ransom situation know about this service? Because ultimately whether other pirates trust you is irrelevant what matters if the bears know about it and trust you sufficiently. And the bears that end up in lowsec tackled and dying aren't generally the smart ones or very deeply immersed in the larger EVE community.

And while a pirate might be happy to trust you with holding onto his ISK for a little while, why exactly do they trust you with where their richest hunting grounds are, because beyond 5% you also gather quite a bit of other information in the process and you're the competition you know...

But overall the idea is solid, have you considered adding bounty escrow to the repertoire?


Thanks Kaeda!

Yes there is an issue with many bears not being aware of us, despite us being a "household name" for pirate corporations IMO. Hopefully, enough of them are aware of us (judging by local in high sec when we pass through, when we enter wormholes or even when they roam low sec) via podcasts, our blogs, eve uni talks etc. for a sizable amount to agree once they hear we are involved. Perhaps a series of testimonials from "e-famous" players could help convince others?

To be honest, we roam far, we're adaptable enough to fight most gangs/targets we run across and we have no blues to not run into issues such as having too few targets. Most information that you can gleam from a ransom offered by this service would appear on a killboard instead - system, time of day, people involved, ships involved etc. and we do (individually) browse killboards of other pirates to see how our competition is doing, therefore this information would be out there in one form or another.

We could expand the service, but we're just stepping into it and would like to ease into the whole 3rd party deal...



I see lots of frig :)
As to that gang last night, we went and reshiped from our camping ships and came back, yall had logged off.
Shame, cause we woulda stomped you.
Grog Drinker
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2012-07-24 17:26:47 UTC
Strider Hiryu wrote:

I see lots of frig :)
As to that gang last night, we went and reshiped from our camping ships and came back, yall had logged off.
Shame, cause we woulda stomped you.


"Hey guys we saw your gang and have now reshipped to a good counter please come back and fight..."

Less camping... more pewing...
zlayer moh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-07-24 17:33:00 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Tyrozan
-snip- Off-topic comments removed - ISD Tyrozan
SB Rico
Sumo Wrestlers
#46 - 2012-07-24 17:33:13 UTC
All time most honourable Pirates

1. The United
2. The Grail Seekers

I could keep going but tuskers won't be high up my list,

Scammers are currently selling killrights on this toon for up to 5mil, if you have paid for this service demand your money back at once.

Killing me should be for free.
SB Rico
Sumo Wrestlers
#47 - 2012-07-24 17:34:36 UTC
zlayer moh wrote:
July 2012 movie reviews.

Men in Black 3.... was eh wouldnt recomend it....
Ted... **** YA lets go watch it again...
Sprider Man.... Was so so couldve been better...
Batman.. Was ******* amazing!!!!

Enjoy the movies guys!!!!
LolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLol



Don't give away the Batman plot won't be able to see it till next week.

Scammers are currently selling killrights on this toon for up to 5mil, if you have paid for this service demand your money back at once.

Killing me should be for free.
Himura Row
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#48 - 2012-07-24 17:36:20 UTC
Good pirates,

Always Honor ransoms

=)
Ishmmael
Death and Decay
#49 - 2012-07-24 17:39:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Tyrozan
-snip- Off-topic comments removed - ISD Tyrozan
SB Rico
Sumo Wrestlers
#50 - 2012-07-24 17:48:14 UTC
Himura Row wrote:
Good pirates,

Always Honor ransoms

=)


Please note he meant us not tuskers

Strider Hiryu > your pod is free to go
Himura Row > good pirates =P
Himura Row > honest kind

Scammers are currently selling killrights on this toon for up to 5mil, if you have paid for this service demand your money back at once.

Killing me should be for free.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#51 - 2012-07-24 17:50:36 UTC
Ishmmael wrote:
1.) Saw I
2.) Saw II
3.) Saw III
4.) Saw IV
5.) Saw V
6.) Saw VI
7.) Saw 3D (or Saw VII)
Watched Saw and I'm peeved I lost that time in my life. What a god awful pile of sh*te.
So either you're joking, or something worse. Shocked

Back to the subject. We always honour ransoms and 1v1s, many thanks.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Keyanu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-07-24 17:53:47 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Tyrozan
-snip- Removed off-topic comment. - ISD Tyrozan
Mag's
Azn Empire
#53 - 2012-07-24 17:57:58 UTC
Rivur'Tam wrote:
Could somebody please give me a like, i have nothing non troll to say and would really like a like.

thanks
I think you should have one, in memory of the goat.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Zicon Shak'ra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-07-24 18:57:57 UTC
Wait, am I to understand it that OP sees ejaculating in public as something bad? Shocked

Wormholes are cool, m'kay?
DeepBlueMax
Sensible People
Sigma Grindset
#55 - 2012-07-24 23:52:19 UTC
Nice idea. The time issue is a concern though. It's hard enough getting the mark to focus on paying a ransom fast enough direct to me without the time hassle of this 'added value service'. Plus, it seems that I'm always on the vinegar stroke of a ransom when a couple of Tuskers will pop up in local and start to become a risk to me. Now you're suggesting that I actually let you know that I'm busy ransoming some unfortunate... I don't think so! Big smile ... not for me.

O7 Tuskers, always gfs, always good for a 1 v 1.
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-07-25 01:48:37 UTC
Jaxley wrote:
Hi C&P,

the lack of air-tight and secure ransoming mechanics prompted us to think of a way that allows customers to pay pirates without fear of losing their ship or pod along with their ISK.

For this purpose, the Tuskers are offering a Third Party Ransom Service as of today in the ingame channel 'RANSOM SERVICE'.

Short version: we hold on to the ransom payment until the customer is safe; then we forward the money to the pirates.

For detailed information, please have a look at this thread on our forums.
Edit: Sigh... EVE forums break the link. For manual copy&paste: http://www.the-tuskers.info/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=3768

An excerpt from the thread's FAQ:
Quote:
Q: Why can I trust Tuskers with this service?
A: Our code does not allow any Tusker to break his word. Doing so warrants public ejection, unless he does everything in his might to set things right to the full satisfaction of all damaged parties.
Feel free to ask neutral parties to vouch for us, who know how we've been operating for the past 4 years (for example in "The Tuskers Public Channel" in-game).

Further questions are appreciated.

Regards,
Jaxley


The idea is noteworthy, but let's face it how long it will take to make buissness done? I'm not going to wait for 5 - 10 minutes on belt with pointed POD ( I dont ransom ships by rule ) and itching finger for that sucker who can't decide to pay or not to pay, ill rather gut that fuc*er.
Most of my victims arn't even able to write anything on local to my ransome offer not to mention some complicated and time consuming procedures of yours.

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#57 - 2012-07-25 08:55:35 UTC
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
Jaxley wrote:
Hi C&P,

the lack of air-tight and secure ransoming mechanics prompted us to think of a way that allows customers to pay pirates without fear of losing their ship or pod along with their ISK.

For this purpose, the Tuskers are offering a Third Party Ransom Service as of today in the ingame channel 'RANSOM SERVICE'.

Short version: we hold on to the ransom payment until the customer is safe; then we forward the money to the pirates.

For detailed information, please have a look at this thread on our forums.
Edit: Sigh... EVE forums break the link. For manual copy&paste: http://www.the-tuskers.info/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=3768

An excerpt from the thread's FAQ:
Quote:
Q: Why can I trust Tuskers with this service?
A: Our code does not allow any Tusker to break his word. Doing so warrants public ejection, unless he does everything in his might to set things right to the full satisfaction of all damaged parties.
Feel free to ask neutral parties to vouch for us, who know how we've been operating for the past 4 years (for example in "The Tuskers Public Channel" in-game).

Further questions are appreciated.

Regards,
Jaxley


The idea is noteworthy, but let's face it how long it will take to make buissness done? I'm not going to wait for 5 - 10 minutes on belt with pointed POD ( I dont ransom ships by rule ) and itching finger for that sucker who can't decide to pay or not to pay, ill rather gut that fuc*er.
Most of my victims arn't even able to write anything on local to my ransome offer not to mention some complicated and time consuming procedures of yours.


ideally its going to take aprox 50seconds, you join the channle with your victim, you ask if anyone will do the ransom, a tusker will answer yes (if noone asnwers after 20seconds do the ransom without tusker ransom service), you tell the victim to send the isk in 30 seconds, once he confirms he has sent it the tusker will check his wallet and cornfirm that it arrived, you let the victim go, he confirms he is safe, the tusker will send you the isk!
Odin Tribus
Rancer Revenue And Customs
#58 - 2012-07-25 09:24:09 UTC

Quote:
ideally its going to take aprox 50seconds, you join the channle with your victim, you ask if anyone will do the ransom, a tusker will answer yes (if noone asnwers after 20seconds do the ransom without tusker ransom service), you tell the victim to send the isk in 30 seconds, once he confirms he has sent it the tusker will check his wallet and cornfirm that it arrived, you let the victim go, he confirms he is safe, the tusker will send you the isk!


This is putting complete trust in The Tuskers and the ransomee which doesn't put the ransomer in a great position.

1) The Tuskers could just take the ISK and not give it to you. I know they'll say they got this gay code but that in itself could just be an elaborate ploy to gain your trust. They'll say there well known around the world of EVE. But are they? Really? Ok, the prerequisite to join is to have a blog so some of you may know them.

2) The ransomee can just lie and say the ransomer hasn't let them go therefore they won't get the ransom ISK and the ransomee gets their ISK back. Is someone from The Tuskers going to be there for the ransom? I highly doubt it.

3) 50 seconds? Come on. If no-one's there then it'll take longer. 50 seconds is ample time for a semi-skilled pilot to get back to the gate/station/wherever so this service is ultimately flawed.
Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#59 - 2012-07-25 09:31:55 UTC
Odin Tribus wrote:

Quote:
ideally its going to take aprox 50seconds, you join the channle with your victim, you ask if anyone will do the ransom, a tusker will answer yes (if noone asnwers after 20seconds do the ransom without tusker ransom service), you tell the victim to send the isk in 30 seconds, once he confirms he has sent it the tusker will check his wallet and cornfirm that it arrived, you let the victim go, he confirms he is safe, the tusker will send you the isk!


This is putting complete trust in The Tuskers and the ransomee which doesn't put the ransomer in a great position.

1) The Tuskers could just take the ISK and not give it to you. I know they'll say they got this gay code but that in itself could just be an elaborate ploy to gain your trust. They'll say there well known around the world of EVE. But are they? Really? Ok, the prerequisite to join is to have a blog so some of you may know them.

2) The ransomee can just lie and say the ransomer hasn't let them go therefore they won't get the ransom ISK and the ransomee gets their ISK back. Is someone from The Tuskers going to be there for the ransom? I highly doubt it.

3) 50 seconds? Come on. If no-one's there then it'll take longer. 50 seconds is ample time for a semi-skilled pilot to get back to the gate/station/wherever so this service is ultimately flawed.


Hi United alt, thanks for the bump! Speaking of bumps, you should perhaps learn how to bump people off gates/stations or fight off them!
Odin Tribus
Rancer Revenue And Customs
#60 - 2012-07-25 09:34:43 UTC
Is this the best answer you could come up with for your flawed system?

If you're going to go down the route of idle tittle taddle, why don't you lot fly anything bigger than frigates?