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Quality of Life: Make Tractor Beams Standard
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Doddy
Excidium.
#21 - 2012-07-24 11:12:26 UTC
Smapty wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
No. You should have to give up DPS to speed up your looting. This is a purely self-serving idea to allow you to speed up your PVE without sacrificing anything.


No. It's simply an effort to improve gameplay. You remember, fun?

In every other game since the dawn of man it works like this:

A) Kill bad guy.
B) Collect shiney.

Only in EVE can they find a way to make that model a tedious choice.

This may be confusing for you since you've clearly been here a while, but tedium and complexity for complexity's sake are sometimes good game design, but sometimes they're just not.


In this case the certainly are. I mean why bother having having tractor beams at all, why not just have the loot teleport into your cargo hold. In fact why not just have it appear in your hangar.

Looting has fully intended mechanics both for pvp (agresison mechanics) and pve (salvaging miniproffession). If you kill a guy in pvp he has the chance of getting his stuff back (which he wouldn't if everyone had auto tractor beams) and the delay it may take you to get to a wreck to loot it increases the time he has to come back and kick your ass. Also theft of loot is an integral part eve pvp and auto tractor beams would remove this almost entirely. Similarly the ability to loot other peoples wrecks they couldn't be bothered to pick up is an entire mini profession in itself which would also be removed by auto tractor beams. So basically you want to nerf people getting thier loot back in pvp (or taking revenge), people salvaging others wrecks (extremely nooby friendly) and theft (core eve game play) all so you don't need to fit a tractor beam or fly a faster ship?
Smapty
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-07-24 15:55:50 UTC
Doddy wrote:
In this case the certainly are. I mean why bother having having tractor beams at all, why not just have the loot teleport into your cargo hold. In fact why not just have it appear in your hangar.

Looting has fully intended mechanics both for pvp (agresison mechanics) and pve (salvaging miniproffession). If you kill a guy in pvp he has the chance of getting his stuff back (which he wouldn't if everyone had auto tractor beams) and the delay it may take you to get to a wreck to loot it increases the time he has to come back and kick your ass. Also theft of loot is an integral part eve pvp and auto tractor beams would remove this almost entirely. Similarly the ability to loot other peoples wrecks they couldn't be bothered to pick up is an entire mini profession in itself which would also be removed by auto tractor beams. So basically you want to nerf people getting thier loot back in pvp (or taking revenge), people salvaging others wrecks (extremely nooby friendly) and theft (core eve game play) all so you don't need to fit a tractor beam or fly a faster ship?


Those are all valid points, however you're looking at it from the perspective of a seasoned player looking for edge case pvp opportunites, etc... I'm looking at it from the perspective of almost any new player joining this game.

New players likely don't have access to significant Corp connections (they're told not to trust ANYONE in fact), let alone T2 battleships, and they certainly don't PVP. The average new player in Eve will probably spend the first few months of their career soloing missions while they figure out what on earth is going on. They also happen to be broke, which means leaving loot on the battlefield feels unwise. What the new player is left with, then, is spending 20-30 mins after every battle tooling around looting their ships... which is actually the opposite of fun.

I imagine this isn't terribly important to most folks in this thread, but there are a laundry list of new player experience issues that are preventing you from having a LOT more people to fly with. A ridiculous learning curve is one thing (which also could be addressed with proper game design), but then for the new player experience to simply be un-fun to boot is a huge problem. This should be your concern.
HAMBER BOGAN
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-07-25 03:54:22 UTC
I would love to see a CFC fleet where everyone has a tractor beam on their ship. They would rip the wrecks into 500 pieces.

Best Bogan

EVE Down Under - Australian EVE Community www.evedownunder.com
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#24 - 2012-07-25 13:54:39 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Smapty wrote:
New players likely don't have access to significant Corp connections (they're told not to trust ANYONE in fact), let alone T2 battleships, and they certainly don't PVP. The average new player in Eve will probably spend the first few months of their career soloing missions while they figure out what on earth is going on. They also happen to be broke, which means leaving loot on the battlefield feels unwise. What the new player is left with, then, is spending 20-30 mins after every battle tooling around looting their ships... which is actually the opposite of fun.


Within a week of starting Eve, I was in a player corp with some other noobs. Within a month we'd figured out tractors and salvagers, and I was flying a salvage catalyst with four of each.

I quite often advise new players to build a destroyer--I recommend the cat for its fitting options--for salvage. Even going solo, it's a lot faster for you to simply bookmark a wreck in each room and return with a dedicated salvage ship once the deadspace has closed than it would be with the feature you're asking for.

I think that what the game needs is a civilian tractor beam (maybe 5 or 8km range) and a brief lesson on using tractors for salvage operations. From there, let the noobs figure it out for themselves. You don't get good at Eve by following cookie-cutter plans. You do it by learning early to innovate.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#25 - 2012-07-25 14:15:04 UTC
All objections have been amply explained so all that's left for me to say is......


-1
Canabi
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#26 - 2012-07-25 14:46:05 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
I know you eve uni guys leave a lot of wrecks behind, but seriously, most of it isn't worth looting.



No, it's mostly crap... well all of it is. but it's good to reprocess for the mats if nothing else.
Griffin Omanid
Knights of the Zodiac
#27 - 2012-07-25 23:15:12 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:

Within a week of starting Eve, I was in a player corp with some other noobs. Within a month we'd figured out tractors and salvagers, and I was flying a salvage catalyst with four of each.

I quite often advise new players to build a destroyer--I recommend the cat for its fitting options--for salvage. Even going solo, it's a lot faster for you to simply bookmark a wreck in each room and return with a dedicated salvage ship once the deadspace has closed than it would be with the feature you're asking for.

I think that what the game needs is a civilian tractor beam (maybe 5 or 8km range) and a brief lesson on using tractors for salvage operations. From there, let the noobs figure it out for themselves. You don't get good at Eve by following cookie-cutter plans. You do it by learning early to innovate.


Good idea. And also good advice for the OP.

Isn´t this the standard procedure. Either your ship got one or two high slots left where you can´t fit a further weapon (like Raven, or better every damn Marauder) or fit supported weapon (Myrmydon) and you can loot while solve your mission, or you just bookmark every room and loot after you solve your mission (Noctis...P, but the destroyer is also a good idea for beginners).

Proposal T2 BS Class Juggernaut
Shish Tukay
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-07-26 20:42:14 UTC
I'd be happy for your mission running BS to have built-in tractor beams when my noctis has built-in BS-sized guns :3
Akatenshi Xi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2012-07-26 23:23:15 UTC
In Freelancer every ship had a tractor beam for looting wrecks.

You kill someone or a NPC, select them, then hit the hotkey for the tractor beam. It's in your cargohold after a few seconds.
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