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Rookie Frigate Changes

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Casiella Truza
Ecliptic Rift
#41 - 2012-07-24 01:03:50 UTC
Count me as another voice for T2 and faction (e.g. pirate faction) rookie ships!

Also, in general I'm in favor of buffing the existing rookie ships. I don't know about the specific numbers, but Up With This Sort Of Thing.
None ofthe Above
#42 - 2012-07-24 01:04:47 UTC
mkint wrote:
Mechael wrote:
mkint wrote:
As a counter to all the "rookies will be confused by the role bonuses," I'd have to point out that a rookie probably won't really know what any of the bonuses do anyway, if they even realize there are bonuses at all. Rookies tend to be overwhelmed, and unless the career tutorials (not just the crash course tutorial) are being significantly changed, the noobships will only be used for 3 tutorial missions and then thrown away when they get their first free T1 ship with the career agents. Which brings up another point: why bother updating the noobships anyway, when they are only every flown for the first 30 minutes of anyone's EVE career?


:( Rookies get free ships these days. Makes me sad. I don't think new players are as attached to the noob ships as us vets are, because "back in the good ol' days" all we got was a reaper, 5,000 ISK, and a slap on the ass. And we liked it!

Basically, what I'm saying here is that I agree with mkint, and that while giving noobs better instruction on how to play is a good idea, giving them free stuff might not be.

Edit: Also, Aura used to be cool and make jokes about "thumb" rules. Now she doesn't have much personality at all.


It would be pretty cool if the noobships can do all the tutorial missions just as well as the current T1 lineup (with noob skills), and then just not give them the freebies any more (including cutting back the isk... I understand by the end of the tutorials or into the epic arc, you should have enough isk to buy a cruiser, which sucks a big one.) As far as updating the tutorials go, do any of the responsible devs ever hang out in rookie help chat? Because it's always the same 3 questions and 2 complaints. And they are a direct result of problems with the tutorials. But I guess my beef with the tutorials is off-topic for this thread. :(


That would be interesting to eliminate the freebies. I remember being a bit shocked that you got a Destroyer out of the tutorial.

Otherwise the noobships should probably be able to do all but the final two military missions. Those last two should still probably require the Combat Frigate and Destroyer that they give you. (Actually you can do the Destroyer mission in the combat frig if you know what you are doing, but don't think it should be compatible with the noobships.)

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
None ofthe Above
#43 - 2012-07-24 01:08:44 UTC
Casiella Truza wrote:
Count me as another voice for T2 and faction (e.g. pirate faction) rookie ships!

Also, in general I'm in favor of buffing the existing rookie ships. I don't know about the specific numbers, but Up With This Sort Of Thing.


Don't forget T3 with subsystems! (Okay, now I am being silly.)

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#44 - 2012-07-24 01:14:20 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
mkint wrote:
Mechael wrote:
mkint wrote:
As a counter to all the "rookies will be confused by the role bonuses," I'd have to point out that a rookie probably won't really know what any of the bonuses do anyway, if they even realize there are bonuses at all. Rookies tend to be overwhelmed, and unless the career tutorials (not just the crash course tutorial) are being significantly changed, the noobships will only be used for 3 tutorial missions and then thrown away when they get their first free T1 ship with the career agents. Which brings up another point: why bother updating the noobships anyway, when they are only every flown for the first 30 minutes of anyone's EVE career?


:( Rookies get free ships these days. Makes me sad. I don't think new players are as attached to the noob ships as us vets are, because "back in the good ol' days" all we got was a reaper, 5,000 ISK, and a slap on the ass. And we liked it!

Basically, what I'm saying here is that I agree with mkint, and that while giving noobs better instruction on how to play is a good idea, giving them free stuff might not be.

Edit: Also, Aura used to be cool and make jokes about "thumb" rules. Now she doesn't have much personality at all.


It would be pretty cool if the noobships can do all the tutorial missions just as well as the current T1 lineup (with noob skills), and then just not give them the freebies any more (including cutting back the isk... I understand by the end of the tutorials or into the epic arc, you should have enough isk to buy a cruiser, which sucks a big one.) As far as updating the tutorials go, do any of the responsible devs ever hang out in rookie help chat? Because it's always the same 3 questions and 2 complaints. And they are a direct result of problems with the tutorials. But I guess my beef with the tutorials is off-topic for this thread. :(


That would be interesting to eliminate the freebies. I remember being a bit shocked that you got a Destroyer out of the tutorial.

Otherwise the noobships should probably be able to do all but the final two military missions. Those last two should still probably require the Combat Frigate and Destroyer that they give you. (Actually you can do the Destroyer mission in the combat frig if you know what you are doing, but don't think it should be compatible with the noobships.)


Hm. On further thought, I'm actually mostly against the idea of sending noobs straight into PvE as their introduction to EVE. I probably wouldn't have stuck around with the tutorial in its current state, now that I think about it. I'd have written it off as just another one of those games.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-07-24 01:32:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Galphii
I was wondering how you were going to tackle improving these ships without overpowering them, and the role bonuses work perfectly in this regard. Good show!

Not even one rig slot? Small rigs are cheap, and wouldn't make them either overpowered or an isk sink for newer players who want to pimp their first ride. If there's time, reconsider this before release Smile

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
Casiella Truza
Ecliptic Rift
#46 - 2012-07-24 01:34:22 UTC
Yeah, using agents as the basis for the introduction to EVE is fundamentally broken, I think. Usually I tell new players to do all 5 branches just to get an idea of what sort of gameplay they might like (if they don't already know). Even then, the total lack of grouping in a game that doesn't really shine until you socialize is problematic. Solo mining? BLECH.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#47 - 2012-07-24 01:37:57 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
Well just saying they wouldnt be naval editions just like Ibis is a civilian version while the egbert (a crane like waterfowl in the US) is the militarized one with matching tech 1 performance to boot. Then there could be a caldari navy Egbert you get the idea.

Then we can give all the civillian ships thier own paint schemes to detract from current miltiary standard ones such as the old gallente orange and white for the velator whiel military edition gets the standard tech 1 colors.


Well either way.

For some reason the idea of Navy Noobships really amuses me.

International safety orange noobships that go beep when moving and have STUDENT PILOT emblazoned on them also amuses (you didn't say that but what you said inspired that thought).

Nova Fox, I unironically thank you. You are the inspiration of much entertainment today.


You just painted the ibis with crash dummy decals and stripes in my head for some reason

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#48 - 2012-07-24 02:05:30 UTC
I would expect to see alot more PVP with the upgraded Rookie Ship capabilties.

Could there also be training ships that they could use to skill certain skills up much faster that after a certain time lets say a few weeks the skill training bonus goes away reverting the ship to a regular rookie ship?
Mira Luhtanen
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-07-24 02:57:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Mira Luhtanen
CCP Fozzie wrote:

IBIS:

Role bonuses:
20% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret optimal range
10% bonus to missile kinetic damage
30% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength
10% bonus to shield resistances


spacejesus, have mercy
Kata Amentis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2012-07-24 07:19:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Kata Amentis
Two step wrote:
I like that they are all useful(ish) now, but I worry about the strange role bonus. New players might look at them and not realize their bonuses won't work the same as other ships do...


Easy way around this is to explicitly state the skill bonuses on the rookie ships.

Frigate skill bonus: None
Role bonus: blah blah blah

then it'll contrast with things like
Quote:

EXECUTIONER:

Frigate skill bonuses: -10% to small energy turret capacitor need and +5% small energy turret damage per level
Role bonus: 80% reduction in Propulsion Jamming systems activation cost
(form the attack frigs thread)

Curiosity killed the Kata... ... but being immortal he wasn't too worried about keeping a count.
Kelsar Hemah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2012-07-24 09:18:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Kelsar Hemah
I think you need to rebalance the powergrid around what weapon system the ships is bonus for.
Right now the reaper will have a easy time fitting while the Impairor wouldnt.
These are supose to be used for level 1 missions so in my opinion the need to be able to fit the following mods with Engineering 3
Guns
Repper (shield or Armor depending on bonus)
Ab
+2 powergrid for the last slots.
Nevigrofnu Mrots
Goonswarm Federation
#52 - 2012-07-24 09:44:43 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
cool you've made the velator the perfect cyno ship


free cyno frig ships forever! Big smile
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#53 - 2012-07-24 11:28:32 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
A few tweaks:

IMPAIROR:
+4 PWG, -5 CPU, +5 Cargohold

IBIS:
+2 PWG, +10 CPU, -5 Cargohold

VELATOR:
+3 PWG, -5 Cargohold

REAPER:
+1 PWG, +5 CPU

We're also dropping one launcher from the Imp and Vel. There are potential future plans to expand missile options for Gallente and Amarr but those who brought up the lack of direction given to new players by even hardpoints make an excellent point.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Pipa Porto
#54 - 2012-07-24 11:44:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
CCP Fozzie wrote:


IMPAIROR:
Cargo capacity: 115 (-5)


That's a really annoying punishment for having an Amarr cyno alt. Everyone else can Noobfrig cyno at Cyno 4, but Amarr have to wait for Cyno 5 or prestage Cargo expanders?

Other than that, I think the changes are great.

Oh, any chance we could get a "Push this Button for a Noobship" button (maybe even cross-racial) so we don't have to pod over to some other station to "buy" one or contract all our ships and redock if we want to play with them?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#55 - 2012-07-24 11:51:37 UTC
We're considering cyno usage a side issue for the rookie frigs in that we won't do anything to discourage it but we won't design specifically for it either. The best bet is probably to just stock cheap expanded cargoholds with your cynogens and ozone anyways so you can use cyno 3 alts for all of them. The fact that our changes will drop the requirement to stock MAPCs in your cyno hangers is one of those unintended but perfectly fine side effects.

The different size cargoholds is to account for holding ammo while doing the kind of missions we are building the frigs for.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Pipa Porto
#56 - 2012-07-24 11:58:19 UTC
Fair enough, though the people who currently use noobships to cyno probably have their alts to cyno 4. It's just weird that where all of a sudden your initial race matters for the first time since remapping became available.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Nevigrofnu Mrots
Goonswarm Federation
#57 - 2012-07-24 12:22:51 UTC
about noob frigs...

I live in 0.0 in a remote station and I have other ships in my hangar, so if I dock up CCP will never give me a noob ship, I have to travel to a nearby station were I have no ships to get one.

Can CCP put a "give one noob ship" button in each station?

to avoid abuse and accumulation, just give one if there is none in your inventory.

Also can you give us other racial noob ships if we have trained other frig racials, making our choice what frig we want to get?

Thanks
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#58 - 2012-07-24 13:11:40 UTC
Nevigrofnu Mrots wrote:
about noob frigs...

I live in 0.0 in a remote station and I have other ships in my hangar, so if I dock up CCP will never give me a noob ship, I have to travel to a nearby station were I have no ships to get one.

Can CCP put a "give one noob ship" button in each station?

to avoid abuse and accumulation, just give one if there is none in your inventory.



This is something I would like to see at some point.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2012-07-24 13:16:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Gevlin
I see the Velator gets a bonus to mining for drones.

I thought the major races were getting out of the mining business

Just don't want 1 newb always choosing Gellente because he wants to be a miner

I also thought that for the smaller ships like frigates the drone bonus would be focusing on speed vs HP and damage
also a speed bonus to drones would also be a steath bonus to mining drones as the travel time from ship to roid would be reduced

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#60 - 2012-07-24 13:52:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
why an increase in sig radius these are fragile enough to begin with.
A shield boost bonus needs some buff to work these should have if anything smaller sig radius than normal t1 frigs being smaller makes them hard to use for pvp granted prob wont be with the new attack frigs/combat frigs but still...
and also with only 2 slots in mids/lows how are they supposed to use the bonus for ewar seems like there bonus are gimmicks saying oo look what you can do with other ships why use this?..and scan res is bit low also make these viable for pvp noobs

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using