Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Doesnt the slasher have like, 0 tank? Cant check as am at work.

who is not getting more support, it's right on. I don't know if the shield boost is the solution, but something needs to be done. IT's completely missed the point. they can't even balanced 6 ships of the same race to all be useful in different ways? seriously?

Give al frigates of the same race the same base stats. Then balance it by maing each one of them better at Tanking, speed, damage, scanning, EW so on.

That the rifter is supposedly a "combat vessel" (a line of ships whose specialties are damage and tank) and yet it has no tanking bonus is beyond me.

Give all ships of the same class the same basic stats. Example: All frigates, across the board, have x shields, x armor, x structure, x speed, etc etc. Then adjust those stats by race. For example, Amarr get an extra x% armor, capacitor, and all the other things Amarr are supposed to be good at. Do this with all of the races. THEN adjust ships by role. So combat vessels get an extra x% ehp and an extra x weapon hardpoints. THEN give the ships their bonuses, based on ship line. Example, combat vessels get a damage bonus and a tanking bonus. Attack vessels get a speed bonus and a damage bonus. Then adjust all of the modules to work within the new ship stats.

Wham, bam, thank you, ma'am. Balancing is mostly done. Tweak as necessary.

Also note: each of the primary ship classes (Frigate, Cruiser, Battleship) should have one ship from each ship line in the T1 lineup. So one combat, attack, bombardment, EWar, and logistic ship. Destroyers and Battlecruisers should then mimic each other, being the natural counter for the ship size directly below them while being weak to the ship size above them. Dessies are the counter to frigates, but too big and slow and thus vulnerable to medium ships. Battlecruisers are the counter to cruisers, but big and slow and thus vulnerable to battleships. Slap the command bonuses on them (yes, command bonused destroyers for small gangs) and poof. Magic.

While we're here, we may as well talk about balancing T1 vs T2 vs T3. Starting at the beginning, each T1 ship is now part of a ship line. Each ship line has two things it does well. Example, combat ships tank and damage. Easy enough. Now, give each T1 ship two T2 variants, one to specialize in each of the things that that ship line is good at. Again, using combat ships as an example, we would have one T2 combat ship that is really, really great at tanking but can't do much else very well (with the examption of damage, which it will still do better than other ships that don't specialize in damage.) Then the other T2 combat vessel obviously specializes in damage, and can't do much else very well (again, with the exception of tanking, which it will still do better than other ships that don't specialize in tanking.) This leaves the T1 ship smack dab in the middle between its T2 variants. It'll do more damage than the tanker version while not being as tanky, and it'll be tankier than the damage version while not doing as much damage. This makes sure that no ship is obsoleted in every area except price (which is currently the situation. Jags/Wolfs are better than Rifters in just about every way except cost, which is really not a very good thing.)

And finally, T3's are supposed to be versatile, able to mix and match to do whatever the pilot needs them to do. This is by far the most difficult part of the balancing process, simply because it needs a lot of work to completely revamp the whole system. For every advantage should come a drawback. Want strong shields? It'll cost you something else. Want powerful missiles? It'll cost you something else. Want speed? Cost. Let the player choose the strengths and weaknesses of his ship with T3. This allows the T3 to min-max as well as be all-arounders, or anything in between, without making them outright superior to any other ship.

It's really not that complicated, is it?

We have fun things in mind for that minmatar shield boost bonus and tech one frigs. More information will come once we get the design a bit more polished.

Man, I knew the Slasher outperforms the Rifter with the new proposed statlines but I didn't realise by just how much until I saw those statlines next to each other.

Nice to see that the Slasher T1 hull will have some actual use beyond being an inty build requirement.

CCP Fozzie, you are fast becoming my favorite dev.

P.S. Don't tell CCP Punkturis ... or CCP Diagoras ... or CCP Veritas ... or CCP Alice ... aaaah nevermind, I can't decide!

Might want to change the "Recommended Certificates: Armor Tanking" when you do that. Even right now the rifter has a slightly better natural shield tank than armor, though it could easily go either way.

LOL.
I REALLY don´t believe it. Rifter is for example still better than the Punisher but CCP needs to care about wining minnes that their T1 frig isn´t so overpowered as it was all the years.
I really don´t get it. Why not buff the Punisher to be on par with Rifter, Merlin and Incursus? Lol.
But if Minnies are wining CCP will do sth imediately. Yeah.
The new Incursus was really something Gallente needed, Merlin is probably a litle bit op, Punisher is crap as always because it is an amarr ship and CCP doesn´t care about amarr and Rifter is okay too.
It is especailly the only one frigate of the four ones (Rifter, Inc, Merlin, Pun) which has a bonus on weapons which do not need cap and has the ability as only one of them to choose damage type.
But no. Minnies are wining that their Rfter is not overpowered as it was all the years before. LOL.
And the best: CCP is reacting.
Yes of course CCP. Give the Rifter more cap than the Punisher and a shield boost bonus and Minnies aren´t wining and everything is as always: WINMATAR.
LOL

edit: lolololololol Fozzie fozzed me first. Ignore what I wrote if you like :D. But still, consider opening a Punisher thread and give details why it should be buffed.


Just saying, you could open a thread and talk about how to get amarr stuff like Punisher on par and compare with what the Rifter is going to be. Some already figured there would be a domino effect on balance as Attack Ships and the whatnots get their attention.



It is just that people figured Slasher will be the better Rifter than the Rifter itself (as dumb as that sounds) so a few considered some things - Or let say Slasher is getting to equal to that of a Rifter, which is what many want to avoid here.

I won't open my mouth too wide about Punisher because it is a special ship itself. I think we can agree it is a brawler just like the Merlin is - with those resistance bonuses.

Just remember that Punisher and Rifter are very different as redundant as that sounds.
Rifter is all about speed and tackling. Punisher is more or less more about obliterating ships. Imo, I think it is best to ask if the bonus magnitudes can be raised a bit on Punisher.


As you said though, it has a bonus to DMG and TRACKING while having no-cap advantage on guns. I'd rather have something like velocity and tracking or agility and xyz etc. but that's just me.

Personally, I don't like that either, which is why I prefer having two or three different frigate families than just one so things don't just compared all the time (but that is for another thread and topic).

Back to Punisher.
I would say to open a thread about Punisher and state why you think it needs buffs.

By all means without trolling, I find there should be a win-Amarr, win-Caldari and win-Gallente too. Every ship should have its awesomeness and not just be shoved off the edge of the bed.

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Nonetheless, great to see that Slasher is useful for something. But the other ships need help too, @CCP Fozzie :D!

It is good that the description fits now too, because it was promising more than the ship itself (though I still used it ;P)