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Initial mining barge changes are on the test server
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#61 - 2012-07-24 00:54:05 UTC
The whole point of the hulk/covetor is:

It's a fleet ship. You never need to store more than a single cycle. Hell, if you stagger your lasers (Smart thing to do as it's better for cap regen), you can be dumping out ore more regularly (with some leeway, if you forget for a cycle)



You want AFK, take a Mack.


Sounds like there are some plans (at least high level ones) to make mining more of a mini game. which I'm all for. People who pay attention make more isk.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Carlton Foster
Doomheim
#62 - 2012-07-24 01:00:53 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:

Sounds like there are some plans (at least high level ones) to make mining more of a mini game. which I'm all for. People who pay attention make more isk.


Do you have a source on that?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#63 - 2012-07-24 01:05:55 UTC
Carlton Foster wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:

Sounds like there are some plans (at least high level ones) to make mining more of a mini game. which I'm all for. People who pay attention make more isk.


Do you have a source on that?


It was mentioned by Soundwave or Unifex (I don't /think/ it was Soniclover) on the last day of Alliance Tournament, in one of the in between bits.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#64 - 2012-07-24 01:14:00 UTC
managed to fit 3 MLU2s on a mack :P requires an implant


[Mackinaw, 3MLUs+buffer [needs implants]]

Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Medium 'Canyon' Shield Extender
Residual Survey Scanner I

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I


Zainou 'Gypsy' Electronics EE-604



EHP 35792 HP - shield resists 63.3 / 70.6 / 78 / 79.5


90% of the output of a 2 MLU hulk [i could be wrong if there are diminishing returns on MLUs]

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Cyrus Deacon
Darkstar Interstellar Demolitions Conglomerate
#65 - 2012-07-24 01:47:56 UTC
Did anyone do some testing with ice mining? Wondering how hulk and mack compare without macks ice yield bonus
Pipa Porto
#66 - 2012-07-24 01:54:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Cyrus Deacon wrote:
Did anyone do some testing with ice mining? Wondering how hulk and mack compare without macks ice yield bonus


Hulk's gonna be better yield. Probably in roughly the same proportion that it's better at mining Ore.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#67 - 2012-07-24 05:14:50 UTC
just a quick note - i'm going to be offline for a few days so you will be without my pyfawarrioring skills.. i hope you can survive without me :P

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Dave Stark
#68 - 2012-07-24 07:14:32 UTC
Droxlyn wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
i just don't see the point in having an ore bay bigger than 1 cycle if it's not going to be able to fit 2 cycles of ore. there's no reason the hulk shouldn't have an ore bay equal to the skiff's.


I did some math on the yields for a Hulk and 2 cycles without MLU2s and no fleet support will take almost 8k m3 space. So, after your first cycle, you make a little room in your ore hold by moving some to your cargo hold and fill up at the end of the second cycle. That seems to be the logic for 7500 m3 instead of 5500 m3.

The other two ships get about 11.74 and 5.47 cycles before their holds fill up without fleet and MLU support. (8 and 4 with)

Drox


mining in a hulk without fitting 2 mlus... doing it oh so wrong. worst justification ever for ******** cargo size.
Pipa Porto
#69 - 2012-07-24 07:31:56 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Droxlyn wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
i just don't see the point in having an ore bay bigger than 1 cycle if it's not going to be able to fit 2 cycles of ore. there's no reason the hulk shouldn't have an ore bay equal to the skiff's.


I did some math on the yields for a Hulk and 2 cycles without MLU2s and no fleet support will take almost 8k m3 space. So, after your first cycle, you make a little room in your ore hold by moving some to your cargo hold and fill up at the end of the second cycle. That seems to be the logic for 7500 m3 instead of 5500 m3.

The other two ships get about 11.74 and 5.47 cycles before their holds fill up without fleet and MLU support. (8 and 4 with)

Drox


mining in a hulk without fitting 2 mlus... doing it oh so wrong. worst justification ever for ******** cargo size.


I did some head math.

Assuming 3 blocks per cycle and 5m per cycle (like a Hulk), a Mack can go AFK mining ice for like an Hour before having to go to station. 35k fits 11 cycles, or 55m of Ice mining.

Assuming 4 blocks per cycle and 6m per cycle (like a Mack), it can go 8 Cycles, or 48m of mining.

That's a hell of an AFK boat.

My assumptions may be off.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#70 - 2012-07-24 10:09:47 UTC
I'm not clear here. Does the Mack still have an ice bonus or not? At the moment I pull 2 blocks per laser, or 4 blocks per 196.97 seconds (with Orca boost and assuming a upgrades in low). Also, in the same vein, is the bonus on the skiff gone? Have we replaced these ore specific bonuses with rigs which can be fit on any barge/exhumer?
P3po
Perkone
Caldari State
#71 - 2012-07-24 10:14:44 UTC
Everyone is comparing tank in here .... but do you have some information on maxed yield fits/skills how do the ships do ?

How much is hulk better than other ships ?

I mean .... if i loose 10% of my mining yield, but i can store few cycles in my ships, i would probably switch from hulk to something else and just field more miners. Because you dont have to move the ore every 2 minutes, but every 15 minutes, and that is awesome.

Oh, and screw your minigames ... try to mine with 6-7 hulks and play some minigames with your ship :D
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#72 - 2012-07-24 10:23:32 UTC
P3po wrote:
Everyone is comparing tank in here .... but do you have some information on maxed yield fits/skills how do the ships do ?

How much is hulk better than other ships ?

I mean .... if i loose 10% of my mining yield, but i can store few cycles in my ships, i would probably switch from hulk to something else and just field more miners. Because you dont have to move the ore every 2 minutes, but every 15 minutes, and that is awesome.

Oh, and screw your minigames ... try to mine with 6-7 hulks and play some minigames with your ship :D


From the first post.

Denidil wrote:

Ship - Strips * modifiers = effective # of strip mining modules

Hulk - 3 strips * 1.15 (barge V) * 1.15 (exhumers V) = 3.9675
Mackinaw - 2 strips * 1.50 (role bonus) * 1.05 (exhumers V) = 3.15
Skiff - 1 strips * 3 (role bonus) * 1.05 = 3.15

Covetor - 3 strips * 1.2 (barge V) = 3.6
Retriever - 2 strips * 1.5 (role bonus) = 3 strips
Procurer - 1 strips * 3 (role bonus) = 3 strips


or % relative to a hulk

Mackinaw: 79.4%
Skiff: 79.4%

Covetor: 90.7%
Retriever: 75.6%
Procurer: 75.6%

hulk: 5
mack/skiff: 3.99

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Dave Stark
#73 - 2012-07-24 10:24:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
the hulk will mine ~25% more, which meaning swapping to an industrial will still be more isk/hour than jetcan mining with a hulk in solo situations.
Pipa Porto
#74 - 2012-07-24 10:54:19 UTC
P3po wrote:
Everyone is comparing tank in here .... but do you have some information on maxed yield fits/skills how do the ships do ?

How much is hulk better than other ships ?

I mean .... if i loose 10% of my mining yield, but i can store few cycles in my ships, i would probably switch from hulk to something else and just field more miners. Because you dont have to move the ore every 2 minutes, but every 15 minutes, and that is awesome.


The other barges with 2 MLUs will mine slightly faster than a Hulk with no MLUs. The Hulk's yield will be staying the same.

You will be able to store a lot of cycles in your ore Hold. The Mack is something like 11 cycles and the Skiff something like 3.

Victoria Sin wrote:
I'm not clear here. Does the Mack still have an ice bonus or not? At the moment I pull 2 blocks per laser, or 4 blocks per 196.97 seconds (with Orca boost and assuming a upgrades in low). Also, in the same vein, is the bonus on the skiff gone? Have we replaced these ore specific bonuses with rigs which can be fit on any barge/exhumer?


Yes, the Ice/Mercx bonuses appear to be being moved to Rigs. So you can have an Ice Rigged Hulk, and it'll have the best Ice yield, an Ice rigged Mack and it'll be able to sit AFK for like an hour collecting Ice before you have to touch it to move bricks, and so on.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
P3po
Perkone
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-07-24 11:06:04 UTC  |  Edited by: P3po
Ok, sorry did not see it in the bottom of page where he compares the mining yeild with 2 MLU's .... so, 25% difference from Mack.

And how will exhumers 5 do the difference between hulk and covetor ? It will be still 10% as mentioned in first post ?

Thanks
Haffsol
#76 - 2012-07-24 11:14:47 UTC
I'm still a bit confused about all these numbers and I'd like to try the new flying pies soon, particularly the skiff *_* but....

Quote:
the hulk will mine ~25% more


uhm.... sorry 25% more than what? It can mine 25% more than something else only if the hulk is fit for max yeld and the "something else" is fit for tank or just unfit at all. If I'm correct the hulk will have always almost 1 MLU more yeld towards the others fitted for max yeld, but the problem is that while the others will have a pretty huge tank using only their mids, the hulk will need a dcu to be "decent", so basically it sucks at mining in real space life nao :p

I'll go the skiff way, even if it need a bit more managing, eventually the mack for some epic-boredome-ops in the ice fields somewhere. Ah, about the mack (sorry never used one) what does it mean that

Quote:
  • miningAmountMultiplier: 2.0 => 1.5

    • is it referring to ice mining or what?
    Steve Ronuken
    Fuzzwork Enterprises
    Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
    #77 - 2012-07-24 11:41:42 UTC
    The Mack gets a base 50% bonus to mining now. (making 2 strips the equivalent of 3) Just like the retriever

    Woo! CSM XI!

    Fuzzwork Enterprises

    Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
    Nevryn Takis
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #78 - 2012-07-24 12:08:49 UTC
    Dave stark wrote:
    Droxlyn wrote:
    Dave stark wrote:
    i just don't see the point in having an ore bay bigger than 1 cycle if it's not going to be able to fit 2 cycles of ore. there's no reason the hulk shouldn't have an ore bay equal to the skiff's.


    I did some math on the yields for a Hulk and 2 cycles without MLU2s and no fleet support will take almost 8k m3 space. So, after your first cycle, you make a little room in your ore hold by moving some to your cargo hold and fill up at the end of the second cycle. That seems to be the logic for 7500 m3 instead of 5500 m3.

    The other two ships get about 11.74 and 5.47 cycles before their holds fill up without fleet and MLU support. (8 and 4 with)

    Drox


    mining in a hulk without fitting 2 mlus... doing it oh so wrong. worst justification ever for ******** cargo size.

    Quite agree .. and not my point ..

    As of now a fully tanked hulk with no MLUs ruuning T2 strips with T1 crystals and L4 exhumer pilot boosted by a mining foreman with a mining implant will pull 4589m3 per cycle of the strips. Without the implant it drops to 3889m3 or there abouts..
    Thus a hulk with less than a 9000m3 base hold is just plain stupid especially given all the buffs to the rest of the barges/exhumers.
    As far as I can see from the figures the hulk will become redundant after the release as there will be no point in mining in anything other than a mack, unless you're mining ice (assuming the ice rig gives the same bonuses as previoulsy applied to the Mack) a cycle will occupy 6000m3 (6 blocks @ 1000m3 per block)
    Pisov viet
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #79 - 2012-07-24 12:11:07 UTC
    So instead of adressing the lack of reward or fun in mining, CCP rewards AFK-ers and botters by making them safer against gankers.

    Good move.
    Pinstar Colton
    Sweet Asteroid Acres
    #80 - 2012-07-24 12:22:20 UTC
    Oh sweet nectar! Ice prices are going to tank now that any ship can become an ice miner.

    Very interesting that a Covetor mines more than the skiff and mack.

    In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.