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EVE Online: Inferno 1.2 to be deployed on August 8

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mkint
#121 - 2012-07-24 01:17:08 UTC
Dinta Zembo wrote:
, Punkturis said something like "people are afraid of change, that'll go away once people get used to the changes."


This might be true when talking about putting on a new pair of socks, but not about UI.

The UI in any system has one, and only one job: to optimize workflow. Making significantly drastic changes to workflow puts the user in a position where even a veteran is back to square one with the newest rookie. That is bad. Period.

With other software platforms, that's where the user has the best opportunity to say "Do I still want to be this company's customer, when they keep breaking my workflow?" And the answer can just as easily be "no" as "yes."

That said, I can't say CCP has ever made an actual improvement in workflow. At best they've broken even, at worse, there are large swathes of the game I won't even touch, even after UI "improvements" and often because of them. It sucks that you can't just boycott inventory like you can PI or POSes, or corp management. Well, I guess there's one way.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Hustomte
Veritex Industrial Inc.
#122 - 2012-07-24 01:28:04 UTC
mkint wrote:
The new UI broke all my bots and now I have a sad


fixed it for you

...Signature...
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#123 - 2012-07-24 01:45:09 UTC
I like the new inventory, but that's because I work a certain way and I'm not a person who uses the inventory a whole lot. I can fully understand why someone else would abhor it. It's a wonderful, beautiful option for me, but it needs to remain an -option- for the people who can't get comfortable with it.
Noriko Mai
#124 - 2012-07-24 01:49:07 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Believe it or not, but we are people just like you.

I'm praying to the Lords of EVE every time before I go to bed and you tell me only now that you are normal people... Just like me and all the others... and... but... ehm...












Smile

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#125 - 2012-07-24 02:12:16 UTC
CCP, why does everyone want miners to pvp?

No one has told them, that yes combat ships do fit tanks, but they can also have great dps at the same time. They never have to sacrfice dps for tank. (Though armor does have to sacrifice speed for tank, and they do complain about that.)

You guys seem to not mind people getting angry at you.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Endymi Typhirr
#126 - 2012-07-24 02:46:22 UTC
Why don't we just paint every ship in camo and be done with it?

I disapprove of space camo, and so should you!

Concord LP Channel and Mailing List For buying and selling of Concord LP and related items
SamuelCZ90
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#127 - 2012-07-24 03:13:08 UTC
LoRDa RaMOs wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Dinta Zembo wrote:
Steijn wrote:
or are we just supposed to STFU and lump it?


In case you were not watching the AT, Punkturis said something like "people are afraid of change, that'll go away once people get used to the changes." Since this seems to be CCP's mindset on every UI change, I suppose the answer to your question is "yes". But you are right, it's still a crappy system, even now that I got used to it.


Nevertheless, looking forward to 50% more awesome mach model. Smile



If Punkturis actually said that I have lost all respect for her. Such flippant remarks is what boiled the customers over last summer.

The UI system was not change, it was terribly stupid change. I'd like to know who's merit bonus is swinging on the UI introduction, cause they must have incredible pull to keep it going even though it has been proven beyond a doubt to be a BAD change.

edit: And what's stupid funny about this - they still can't get the Jump Freighter fuel bay to work correctly. Apparently it can't do math if you try to put too much fuel in. Lame.


Please quit it. Already.

I'd like to point the devs (again) to these wonderful suggestions from he community:

Dual pane inventory FTW! http://i.imgur.com/j8Jyn.jpg
A good list of stuff https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1239629#post1239629

Something unrelated to the UI for a change
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1649019#post1649019

And the commend about angel cow ships... Awesome.!

Maybe it's time for some extra love on the UI again.



That dual panel inventory idea looks very good. Ill hope there will be something like that.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#128 - 2012-07-24 03:25:08 UTC
rodyas wrote:
CCP, why does everyone want miners to pvp?

No one has told them, that yes combat ships do fit tanks, but they can also have great dps at the same time. They never have to sacrfice dps for tank. (Though armor does have to sacrifice speed for tank, and they do complain about that.)

You guys seem to not mind people getting angry at you.


heh you're actually wrong here because combat ships do have to pick some balance between damage and tank

what you want is a max-yield hulk with 80k ehp

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#129 - 2012-07-24 04:10:35 UTC
In the far future they'll let you build your fittings without having the items on hand already and its F key layout and group like EFT except, its built in.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Vanessa Vansen
Vandeo
#130 - 2012-07-24 04:21:19 UTC
Please don't forget to adjust the fitting requirements of ice harvesters to be inline with strip miners.
This would allow switching from strip miners to ice harvesters (+ upgrades) without having to change the non-mining/non-harvesting related stuff (e.g. tank, cargohold and so on)
Juniorama
State War Academy
Caldari State
#131 - 2012-07-24 04:33:23 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Erzak Ormand wrote:
I personally enjoy the new Inventory system. I keeps me from having to open 10 different windows.
The old inventory system kept me from having to open 10 different windows. At no point would I ever need (or even be able to, without additional work) to open more than four. The new UI forces me to open more windows than ever. I suppose I could contain it in one window, but that would make it four times slower (excluding UI lag) than before.

Either way, not enjoyable.

The fix that made some (but not all) windows remember (some of) their status fixed (some of) the annoyances, but still requires a ton of setup to make work and I dread the day a mistake or a patch resets the window settings. In a funny twist of irony, the new main UI window is now the one that is the least reliable in this regard. The old way where all windows remembered all of their status without any of the annoyances was still preferable.



Seems to me that people don't know you can drag items from one inventory location to another inventory location through the inventory tree (just drop it on the name of the location you want your items to go).

I don't see a reason to have more than one window open at a time.
darmwand
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#132 - 2012-07-24 04:34:11 UTC
rodyas wrote:
CCP, why does everyone want miners to pvp?
No one has told them, that yes combat ships do fit tanks, but they can also have great dps at the same time. They never have to sacrfice dps for tank. (Though armor does have to sacrifice speed for tank, and they do complain about that.)


Huh? Every slot that is used for tank reduces DPS, especially low and rig slots. Eg. a DCU takes up a slot that could be given to a Magstab, the same thing goes for plates and other armor modules.

Finding the right balance between DPS and tank is an important part of fitting a PvP ship, just as finding the right balance between x and tank is an important part of pretty much every other ship in EVE (like haulers with cargo space, mining ships with mining yield etc.).

"The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp."
Sten Biller
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#133 - 2012-07-24 04:38:15 UTC
Panhead4411 wrote:
Why sooo black? I'm tired of seeing all my favorite ships getting re-textured to look like they were drug through poo or dipped in old motor oil.
I think so also; I feel I need to turn up my Gamma since all the changes the last few years, but Eve won't allow that.
Anvil44
Avedis Corporation
The Vanguard Syndicate
#134 - 2012-07-24 05:03:04 UTC
Juniorama wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Erzak Ormand wrote:
I personally enjoy the new Inventory system. I keeps me from having to open 10 different windows.
The old inventory system kept me from having to open 10 different windows. At no point would I ever need (or even be able to, without additional work) to open more than four. The new UI forces me to open more windows than ever. I suppose I could contain it in one window, but that would make it four times slower (excluding UI lag) than before.

Either way, not enjoyable.

The fix that made some (but not all) windows remember (some of) their status fixed (some of) the annoyances, but still requires a ton of setup to make work and I dread the day a mistake or a patch resets the window settings. In a funny twist of irony, the new main UI window is now the one that is the least reliable in this regard. The old way where all windows remembered all of their status without any of the annoyances was still preferable.



Seems to me that people don't know you can drag items from one inventory location to another inventory location through the inventory tree (just drop it on the name of the location you want your items to go).

I don't see a reason to have more than one window open at a time.

Obviously you haven't used this window while in a POS while trying to move cargo from your orca into a hanger. Or from a container to some other location. I can't always expand my tree view large enough to see both source and target.

Another annoyance is to undock from a station without closing your cargo view and the hanger items view, then redock only to find both windows open and showing your cargo contents. I hate trying to drag and drop nothing a few times before I realize what is going on.

I really like the direction they seem to be heading with the changes to the mining vessels. Each one, whether tech1 or t2 will have a clearly defined role. They all become useful, not just 2 ships out of 6.

I have no excitement for the new shader models since I can't really see much anhow. Too dark. Just like real space I suppose.

I may not like you or your point of view but you have a right to voice it.
Diamonica Norya
Pro Synergy
#135 - 2012-07-24 06:29:08 UTC
I believe the Eve ship artists plays D3 and pitied the absence of the Cow Level and decided to create a New Eden version in memory of it.

The Angel Cartel shall now be named as The Cow Cartel starting August 8th 2012 and bring Cow Horror to the remaining places in New Eden that aren't affected by Sansha Incursions. Unleash the Bovines!
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#136 - 2012-07-24 06:32:51 UTC  |  Edited by: rodyas
Richard Desturned wrote:
rodyas wrote:
CCP, why does everyone want miners to pvp?

No one has told them, that yes combat ships do fit tanks, but they can also have great dps at the same time. They never have to sacrfice dps for tank. (Though armor does have to sacrifice speed for tank, and they do complain about that.)

You guys seem to not mind people getting angry at you.


heh you're actually wrong here because combat ships do have to pick some balance between damage and tank

what you want is a max-yield hulk with 80k ehp



True, but I imagine you don't fly gallente, when you go out. With some races, having to "balance" isn't too bad really. Mostly mining barges are like flying gallente or the non-flavor of the month. I don't need 80k ehp or max-yeild ( just kidding, I do want max yeild) but I would like minmitar version miners, or perhaps drake or tengu like mining barges. That or nerf all those great pvp ships.

(Perhaps with you being a goon, I should say, they are rather like a loki, a loki facing a whole mob of drake asteroids.)

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Diamonica Norya
Pro Synergy
#137 - 2012-07-24 06:33:29 UTC
Anvil44 wrote:
Juniorama wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Erzak Ormand wrote:
I personally enjoy the new Inventory system. I keeps me from having to open 10 different windows.
The old inventory system kept me from having to open 10 different windows. At no point would I ever need (or even be able to, without additional work) to open more than four. The new UI forces me to open more windows than ever. I suppose I could contain it in one window, but that would make it four times slower (excluding UI lag) than before.

Either way, not enjoyable.

The fix that made some (but not all) windows remember (some of) their status fixed (some of) the annoyances, but still requires a ton of setup to make work and I dread the day a mistake or a patch resets the window settings. In a funny twist of irony, the new main UI window is now the one that is the least reliable in this regard. The old way where all windows remembered all of their status without any of the annoyances was still preferable.



Seems to me that people don't know you can drag items from one inventory location to another inventory location through the inventory tree (just drop it on the name of the location you want your items to go).

I don't see a reason to have more than one window open at a time.

Obviously you haven't used this window while in a POS while trying to move cargo from your orca into a hanger. Or from a container to some other location. I can't always expand my tree view large enough to see both source and target.

Another annoyance is to undock from a station without closing your cargo view and the hanger items view, then redock only to find both windows open and showing your cargo contents. I hate trying to drag and drop nothing a few times before I realize what is going on.

I really like the direction they seem to be heading with the changes to the mining vessels. Each one, whether tech1 or t2 will have a clearly defined role. They all become useful, not just 2 ships out of 6.

I have no excitement for the new shader models since I can't really see much anhow. Too dark. Just like real space I suppose.


ppl just needed to learn to trim the tree or not let their tree grow at all, then you'll love the new inventory

how you achieved that is entirely another matter but generally has something to do with quite some adjustments to your play style and activeness in game are currently the most effective methods.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#138 - 2012-07-24 08:33:59 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:

Also we would like to draw your attention to the new video V3 shader for Angel ships here.



Why so camo? Camouflage everywhere displacing our rust and duct tape does not feel right!

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
xXThunder StruckXx
Sandman Plc
#139 - 2012-07-24 08:43:41 UTC
Could you please let us know what is happening to the crimewatch changes? Have they been scrapped , withheld again?


Any update would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
Jett0
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#140 - 2012-07-24 09:34:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jett0
CCP Explorer wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Thanks for filling in the rest of the story, Punkturis. Maybe the rest of the Dev's will get a clue about proactively engaging with us instead of ignoring us and hoping for the best (which rarely has happened over the past two years).
Most devs at CCP read the forums very actively and diligently, and incorporate the feedback in their work. But some are not responding as actively on the forums (or on Twitter) because they are not willing to endure at times the kind of beating CCP Punkturis has been subject to here.

Don't quote out of context, don't assume that dev X has worked on feature Y, don't resort to personal attacks, be nice. Believe it or not, but we are people just like you.


In my opinion, as human beings you guys have every right to counter-troll the living hell out those types, blue tag and all.

F**k "professionalism." Most of us just like seeing you guys post, whatever it happens to be.

EDIT: On topic, good job with the new tutorial. Seriously.

Occasionally plays sober