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Rookie Frigate Changes

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Udonor
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-07-23 21:12:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Udonor
More critical if you can somehow get noobs to realize ship bonuses exist. Maybe a box in fitting window showing net bonuses and the effects.

The next issue is somehow directing noobs to ship info and ship description tab in hopes that eventually they will start looking it up first themselves. Maybe make the fitting window bonus display an obviously clickable link that takes you to ship description tab in ship item info?

And what no weird single rig slot?
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-07-23 21:21:12 UTC
cool you've made the velator the perfect cyno ship

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Udonor
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-07-23 21:28:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Udonor
Richard Desturned wrote:
cool you've made the velator the perfect cyno ship



Well what did you expect with all those micro jump drives coming out soon? It wouldn't make sense to have more expensive cyno ships for a frigate or destroyer or interdictor jumping in.


But look for cyno beacons to get graded into small/medium/large/capital with assocaited restrictions on distance and size of ship that can use given size of cyno.


Picturing a CCP barker announcing "Fire sale. Alll old modules must go. New modules released to make everything new ...even if its not particularly broken - we can make it more complex and interesting!!!"
None ofthe Above
#24 - 2012-07-23 21:33:49 UTC  |  Edited by: None ofthe Above
Nova Fox wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
A lot of EVE is based on a concept that newer players and older players could conflict with each other, and the newer player might actually have a decent chance at winning.

The lack of scalability on the rookie ship... are there any plans to allow for experienced pilots to have realistic use of T1 frigates and this rookie ship, or are they all ultimately training wheels for faction or T2?


Giving newer pilots a great set of affordable tech one ships that can allow a more skilled newer player to beat older players has always been one of the ship design goals in eve. Rookie frigs are designed as intro ships rather than hardcore pvp ships, but we have a lot of improvements to tech one frigates coming up as part of our removal of ship tiers. CCP Ytterbium posted about some other tech one frigate changes arriving in Inferno 1.2 in this thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=122912&find=unread

There's going to be even more changes announced here in the coming months, keep an eye out in the features and ideas forum and on singularity.


Can I further interate on what nick said and ask if we would ever possibly see 'military' versions of these 'cvillian' ships that do scale with level? Something that isnt given away for free but has to be built like any other tech 1 frigate. Also default frigate armament and the lack of civillian class modules in the market place may make for exploring additional fits hard for beginners when on thier first day.



Like maybe Faction Navy Noobships? The mind boggles. Really... it is boggling right now.

I think that would be kind of cool actually.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-07-23 21:35:50 UTC
Just a thought, though this probably isn't your area, while you're looking at rookie ships can we have an button to request one if we're in a station without any ships, rather than just always being given one automatically? I have so many Ibises lying around throughout empire cluttering up my assets window that I'm never going to go get and can't be bothered to scroll through and scrap them all either.

Also, how about an option to choose anther race's rookie ship once you've crosstrained for those of us who'd like a different flavour of free spacetaxi?

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-07-23 21:37:01 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
i wonder about the missing neut bonus on the amarr noobship


I think it's becuase of the less enegry to use turrets bonus. Imo it should replaced with a weak neut bonus, to help introduce players into ammar

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-07-23 21:39:36 UTC
Udonor wrote:
More critical if you can somehow get noobs to realize ship bonuses exist. Maybe a box in fitting window showing net bonuses and the effects.

The next issue is somehow directing noobs to ship info and ship description tab in hopes that eventually they will start looking it up first themselves. Maybe make the fitting window bonus display an obviously clickable link that takes you to ship description tab in ship item info?

And what no weird single rig slot?


oh my god your right, the fitting windows doesn't list what the ship bonuses are. That's an odd oversight

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Alystin Wyndyl
Night's Shadows
#28 - 2012-07-23 21:40:07 UTC
The Velator at Cynosural Field Theory III (140 m3 of LO), the Ibis and Reaper at Cynosural Field Theory IV (120m3 of LO), and finally, the poor Amarrian noobship the Impairor at Cynosural Field theory V.

Of course any of them can be used at lower levels with a cargo expander or two. Compared to the cost of the generator, those are essentially free.

Just think, cyno locations can be seeded with some generators and LO, and cyno toons just need to dock up in their pod, strip ship, add cargo and generator, and they're ready to go. No more hunting about for a suitable replacement ship.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-07-23 21:40:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
MotherMoon wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
i wonder about the missing neut bonus on the amarr noobship


I think it's becuase of the less enegry to use turrets bonus. Imo it should replaced with a weak neut bonus, to help introduce players into ammar


The neut bonus is for T2 amarr ships, for the same reason the Velator isn't getting scram range and the Reaper isn't getting web range bonuses.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#30 - 2012-07-23 21:47:52 UTC
Well just saying they wouldnt be naval editions just like Ibis is a civilian version while the egbert (a crane like waterfowl in the US) is the militarized one with matching tech 1 performance to boot. Then there could be a caldari navy Egbert you get the idea.

Then we can give all the civillian ships thier own paint schemes to detract from current miltiary standard ones such as the old gallente orange and white for the velator whiel military edition gets the standard tech 1 colors.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Raze Zindonas
TYR.
Exodus.
#31 - 2012-07-23 22:06:19 UTC
Cheaper cyno ships!
Hoshi
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#32 - 2012-07-23 22:28:13 UTC
Alystin Wyndyl wrote:
The Velator at Cynosural Field Theory III (140 m3 of LO), the Ibis and Reaper at Cynosural Field Theory IV (120m3 of LO), and finally, the poor Amarrian noobship the Impairor at Cynosural Field theory V.

Of course any of them can be used at lower levels with a cargo expander or two. Compared to the cost of the generator, those are essentially free.

Just think, cyno locations can be seeded with some generators and LO, and cyno toons just need to dock up in their pod, strip ship, add cargo and generator, and they're ready to go. No more hunting about for a suitable replacement ship.

You can do this as they are now. I almost only use noobships for my cynos these days.
Just need a Micro Auxiliary Power Core as well which these changes make unnecessary. So while this does make it a bit easier it's not a huge change.

"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#33 - 2012-07-23 23:04:34 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
i wonder about the missing neut bonus on the amarr noobship


Neuts are a secondary form of EWar. Kind of like webbers for Minmatar or Disruptors for Gallente. It's the sort of thing that every race can be expected to use, but certain races have a slight edge in that they have a very small handful of ships that are bonused for them.

The primary racial forms of EWar are:

Amarr - Tracking Disruption
Caldari - ECM (they actually do not have a secondary form)
Gallente - Sensor Dampers
Minmatar - Target Painters

There are always exceptions, such as Golems with Target Painter bonuses, but those are exceptions. Not rules.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Kenpachi Viktor
Perkone
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-07-23 23:31:25 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
mkint wrote:
When you say "useful" and "versatile" and stuff, what exactly do you mean in this case? What performance should we expect out of the new noob ships? Tutorials only? lvl 1 missions? lvl 2's? PVP vs T1 frigs?


These frigates should be capable of running level 1 missions and career agents


When I started playing Eve, this is how I thought it worked, I was wrong. Good to see it's being fixed

A war that would’ve involved 20,000 players, 75% of nullsec space, and hundreds of supercapitals was halted not by diplomacy, but by a game mechanic so dreadful that those who have experienced it previously have no desire to do so again. - Fix POS & SOV
Deena Amaj
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-07-23 23:50:30 UTC
Holy.... ONE LINER O_O!

confirthisposmed

I'm probably typing on a Tablet too, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them.
mkint
#36 - 2012-07-24 00:32:01 UTC
As a counter to all the "rookies will be confused by the role bonuses," I'd have to point out that a rookie probably won't really know what any of the bonuses do anyway, if they even realize there are bonuses at all. Rookies tend to be overwhelmed, and unless the career tutorials (not just the crash course tutorial) are being significantly changed, the noobships will only be used for 3 tutorial missions and then thrown away when they get their first free T1 ship with the career agents. Which brings up another point: why bother updating the noobships anyway, when they are only every flown for the first 30 minutes of anyone's EVE career?

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#37 - 2012-07-24 00:37:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Mechael
mkint wrote:
As a counter to all the "rookies will be confused by the role bonuses," I'd have to point out that a rookie probably won't really know what any of the bonuses do anyway, if they even realize there are bonuses at all. Rookies tend to be overwhelmed, and unless the career tutorials (not just the crash course tutorial) are being significantly changed, the noobships will only be used for 3 tutorial missions and then thrown away when they get their first free T1 ship with the career agents. Which brings up another point: why bother updating the noobships anyway, when they are only every flown for the first 30 minutes of anyone's EVE career?


:( Rookies get free ships these days. Makes me sad. I don't think new players are as attached to the noob ships as us vets are, because "back in the good ol' days" all we got was a reaper, 5,000 ISK, and a slap on the ass. And we liked it!

Basically, what I'm saying here is that I agree with mkint, and that while giving noobs better instruction on how to play is a good idea, giving them free stuff might not be.

Edit: Also, Aura used to be cool and make jokes about "thumb" rules. Now she doesn't have much personality at all.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
mkint
#38 - 2012-07-24 00:52:58 UTC
Mechael wrote:
mkint wrote:
As a counter to all the "rookies will be confused by the role bonuses," I'd have to point out that a rookie probably won't really know what any of the bonuses do anyway, if they even realize there are bonuses at all. Rookies tend to be overwhelmed, and unless the career tutorials (not just the crash course tutorial) are being significantly changed, the noobships will only be used for 3 tutorial missions and then thrown away when they get their first free T1 ship with the career agents. Which brings up another point: why bother updating the noobships anyway, when they are only every flown for the first 30 minutes of anyone's EVE career?


:( Rookies get free ships these days. Makes me sad. I don't think new players are as attached to the noob ships as us vets are, because "back in the good ol' days" all we got was a reaper, 5,000 ISK, and a slap on the ass. And we liked it!

Basically, what I'm saying here is that I agree with mkint, and that while giving noobs better instruction on how to play is a good idea, giving them free stuff might not be.

Edit: Also, Aura used to be cool and make jokes about "thumb" rules. Now she doesn't have much personality at all.


It would be pretty cool if the noobships can do all the tutorial missions just as well as the current T1 lineup (with noob skills), and then just not give them the freebies any more (including cutting back the isk... I understand by the end of the tutorials or into the epic arc, you should have enough isk to buy a cruiser, which sucks a big one.) As far as updating the tutorials go, do any of the responsible devs ever hang out in rookie help chat? Because it's always the same 3 questions and 2 complaints. And they are a direct result of problems with the tutorials. But I guess my beef with the tutorials is off-topic for this thread. :(

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
None ofthe Above
#39 - 2012-07-24 00:54:00 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Well just saying they wouldnt be naval editions just like Ibis is a civilian version while the egbert (a crane like waterfowl in the US) is the militarized one with matching tech 1 performance to boot. Then there could be a caldari navy Egbert you get the idea.

Then we can give all the civillian ships thier own paint schemes to detract from current miltiary standard ones such as the old gallente orange and white for the velator whiel military edition gets the standard tech 1 colors.


Well either way.

For some reason the idea of Navy Noobships really amuses me.

International safety orange noobships that go beep when moving and have STUDENT PILOT emblazoned on them also amuses (you didn't say that but what you said inspired that thought).

Nova Fox, I unironically thank you. You are the inspiration of much entertainment today.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#40 - 2012-07-24 00:59:03 UTC
mkint wrote:
Mechael wrote:
mkint wrote:
As a counter to all the "rookies will be confused by the role bonuses," I'd have to point out that a rookie probably won't really know what any of the bonuses do anyway, if they even realize there are bonuses at all. Rookies tend to be overwhelmed, and unless the career tutorials (not just the crash course tutorial) are being significantly changed, the noobships will only be used for 3 tutorial missions and then thrown away when they get their first free T1 ship with the career agents. Which brings up another point: why bother updating the noobships anyway, when they are only every flown for the first 30 minutes of anyone's EVE career?


:( Rookies get free ships these days. Makes me sad. I don't think new players are as attached to the noob ships as us vets are, because "back in the good ol' days" all we got was a reaper, 5,000 ISK, and a slap on the ass. And we liked it!

Basically, what I'm saying here is that I agree with mkint, and that while giving noobs better instruction on how to play is a good idea, giving them free stuff might not be.

Edit: Also, Aura used to be cool and make jokes about "thumb" rules. Now she doesn't have much personality at all.


It would be pretty cool if the noobships can do all the tutorial missions just as well as the current T1 lineup (with noob skills), and then just not give them the freebies any more (including cutting back the isk... I understand by the end of the tutorials or into the epic arc, you should have enough isk to buy a cruiser, which sucks a big one.) As far as updating the tutorials go, do any of the responsible devs ever hang out in rookie help chat? Because it's always the same 3 questions and 2 complaints. And they are a direct result of problems with the tutorials. But I guess my beef with the tutorials is off-topic for this thread. :(


Agreed. I'd love to see something like that implemented.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.