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Mining barge changes [now with feedback]
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MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-07-23 20:57:28 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
corestwo wrote:
Denidil wrote:
Feedback: i think all barges could use a PG boost.


Why? Fiddling with what this enables now (rigs used for tank instead of expanders) and I can get about 16k out of a hulk now, that'll go to 30k or so post-patch. Ganking that will require three tornados. Is that not good enough for you?


does this mean there's going to be an increase on hulkageddon payouts in order to compensate for more/bigger ships needed to gank hulks and keep it profitable for the gankers?

or, are the high sec miners safe now?


doesn't matter the hulk won't be much stronger. The less you can mine the more safe you are.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#22 - 2012-07-23 21:02:04 UTC
Unit757 wrote:
There doesn't seem to be any reason to fly a Mackinaw, when the skiff brings in the same yield, with more tank?

IMO, the skiff and Mackinaw seem WAY to AFK friendly.

Interesting changes none the less, I'm willing to bet that people still won't tank them though.


DAT ORE HOLD

mackinaw 37500 ore hold (25k * 1.5 for barge V)

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Xyrrath Actault
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-07-23 21:02:50 UTC
This game becomes AFK and Bot friendly once again.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#24 - 2012-07-23 21:03:13 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
corestwo wrote:
Denidil wrote:
Feedback: i think all barges could use a PG boost.


Why? Fiddling with what this enables now (rigs used for tank instead of expanders) and I can get about 16k out of a hulk now, that'll go to 30k or so post-patch. Ganking that will require three tornados. Is that not good enough for you?


does this mean there's going to be an increase on hulkageddon payouts in order to compensate for more/bigger ships needed to gank hulks and keep it profitable for the gankers?

or, are the high sec miners safe now?


doesn't matter the hulk won't be much stronger. The less you can mine the more safe you are.


2 MLU mack/skiff > 0 MLU hulk (3.99 vs 3.9675)
2 MLU hulk > 2 mlu mack/skiff (5 vs 3.99)

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-07-23 21:05:28 UTC
Unit757 wrote:
There doesn't seem to be any reason to fly a Mackinaw, when the skiff brings in the same yield, with more tank?

IMO, the skiff and Mackinaw seem WAY to AFK friendly.

Interesting changes none the less, I'm willing to bet that people still won't tank them though.

don't much care about AFK friendliness as long as they aren't bot friendly. AFK means they are sitting idle in the belt.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Unit757
North Point
#26 - 2012-07-23 21:06:44 UTC
Denidil wrote:
Unit757 wrote:
There doesn't seem to be any reason to fly a Mackinaw, when the skiff brings in the same yield, with more tank?

IMO, the skiff and Mackinaw seem WAY to AFK friendly.

Interesting changes none the less, I'm willing to bet that people still won't tank them though.


DAT ORE HOLD

mackinaw 37500 ore hold (25k * 1.5 for barge V)


True enough.

Still seems way to excesive, I can somewhat understand the buff in defensive abilities, but the huge ore holds and tank is just inviting bots back.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2012-07-23 21:07:09 UTC
Xyrrath Actault wrote:
This game becomes AFK and Bot friendly once again.

hogwash!

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Dave stark
#28 - 2012-07-23 21:10:20 UTC
Unit757 wrote:
Denidil wrote:
Unit757 wrote:
There doesn't seem to be any reason to fly a Mackinaw, when the skiff brings in the same yield, with more tank?

IMO, the skiff and Mackinaw seem WAY to AFK friendly.

Interesting changes none the less, I'm willing to bet that people still won't tank them though.


DAT ORE HOLD

mackinaw 37500 ore hold (25k * 1.5 for barge V)


True enough.

Still seems way to excesive, I can somewhat understand the buff in defensive abilities, but the huge ore holds and tank is just inviting bots back.


implying ccp aren't actively banning bots.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#29 - 2012-07-23 21:21:17 UTC
Unit757 wrote:
Denidil wrote:
Unit757 wrote:
There doesn't seem to be any reason to fly a Mackinaw, when the skiff brings in the same yield, with more tank?

IMO, the skiff and Mackinaw seem WAY to AFK friendly.

Interesting changes none the less, I'm willing to bet that people still won't tank them though.


DAT ORE HOLD

mackinaw 37500 ore hold (25k * 1.5 for barge V)


True enough.

Still seems way to excesive, I can somewhat understand the buff in defensive abilities, but the huge ore holds and tank is just inviting bots back.


they've been banning bots constantly.. you ban one another one shows up

the huge ore hold and the EHP is a nod to the fact taht mining is boring and that they're too easy to gank. post changes my mining char can be up mining while i'm fighting on my other char and i barely have to look.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#30 - 2012-07-23 21:35:57 UTC
For the time being, until someone creates a preview-data version for EFT or PyFa, the Hulk changes are fairly easy to simulate.

Fit it as you normally would. Once done, remove one lowslot that doesn't affect tanking and put a T1 800mm plate in the slot. Likewise, remove one midslot that doesn't affect tanking and put a MSEII in the slot. If you've already fitted an MSEII, replace it with a meta LSE. Also, ditch any cargo expansion, since it won't make any useful difference. Et voilà, updated stats! Blink
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#31 - 2012-07-23 21:37:37 UTC
Tippia wrote:
For the time being, until someone creates a preview-data version for EFT or PyFa, the Hulk changes are fairly easy to simulate.

Fit it as you normally would. Once done, remove one lowslot that doesn't affect tanking and put a T1 800mm plate in the slot. Likewise, remove one midslot that doesn't affect tanking and put a MSEII in the slot. If you've already fitted an MSEII, replace it with a meta LSE. Also, ditch any cargo expansion, since it won't make any useful difference. Et voilà, updated stats! Blink


i've partially modified pyfa (it uses a sql lite database) - i've changed the cpu, pg, slot layout and inherent hit points values. i have not played with the bonuses.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#32 - 2012-07-23 23:36:15 UTC
One interesting note is the Skiff still has one strip. So you will drain a roid quite fast. In high sec many roids would not last even one cycle. On the other hand, you will not need as many crystals.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-07-23 23:40:47 UTC
"Halada's Mining Guide" wrote:

We will do the math again, for the heck of it. I assume you went from a “maxed Covetor” to
a Hulk in the following equation:
360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05^2 * 1.75 = 1819.75 m3/cycle



Please boost the storage of the Hulk's Ore bay to 11000 because two perfect cycle sets results in 10918.5 m3 of ore.
1819.75 * 6.

7500 is good for 4 individual laser cycles.

Also, where does the mining drone output go?

Thanks!
Drox
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#34 - 2012-07-23 23:44:27 UTC
Also at the bottom are rigs for Mercoxit and ice mining. The barges not longer are specialized for those mining roles; you make them specialized by adding a rig.

A skiff rigged for ice mining is a huge step up in tank from the existing Mack. I predict a drop in ice product prices.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#35 - 2012-07-23 23:47:27 UTC
Droxlyn wrote:
Please boost the storage of the Hulk's Ore bay to 11000 because two perfect cycle sets results in 10918.5 m3 of ore.
1819.75 * 6.
Good thing that you have a fleet at hand to take that ore off your hand, and that 4 individual laser cycles is more than enough time, no matter how you cut it, to dump the ore either into a can or into a nearby storage vessel. Blink

The Hulk is a fleet mining ship. They assume that you will be handing the ore over to someone else, so very little local storage is actually needed.
Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-07-23 23:54:39 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Droxlyn wrote:
Please boost the storage of the Hulk's Ore bay to 11000 because two perfect cycle sets results in 10918.5 m3 of ore.
1819.75 * 6.
Good thing that you have a fleet at hand to take that ore off your hand, and that 4 individual laser cycles is more than enough time, no matter how you cut it, to dump the ore either into a can or into a nearby storage vessel. Blink

The Hulk is a fleet mining ship. They assume that you will be handing the ore over to someone else, so very little local storage is actually needed.


My desire is to do it every-other-cycle, not every-cycle. I'd like a little extra time for potty breaks and forum browsing.

Drox
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#37 - 2012-07-24 00:00:15 UTC
Droxlyn wrote:
My desire is to do it every-other-cycle, not every-cycle. I'd like a little extra time for potty breaks and forum browsing.
Then you should be using a Mackinaw or a Retriever.
Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-07-24 00:10:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Droxlyn
Tippia wrote:
Then you should be using a Mackinaw or a Retriever.

I like your advice, I'll reship to go ****. (Does pee get xxxxed out?)
If they're going to be mean on the ore hold, go with 5500 or jump up to 11000, 7500 is just silly.

Even if you GIMP your hulk as much as you can with maxxed skills, your yield is 3905.5/set so, you still need 8000 m3 to get two cycles with no fleet bonuses.

So, I guess that explains the 500m3 hold. Since two cycles unaided with no MLUs will fill the entire ship after you make some room.

Drox
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2012-07-24 00:15:43 UTC
Droxlyn wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Then you should be using a Mackinaw or a Retriever.

I like your advice, I'll reship to go ****. (Does pee get xxxxed out?)
If they're going to be mean on the ore hold, go with 5500 or jump up to 11000, 7500 is just silly.

Even if you GIMP your hulk as much as you can with maxxed skills, your yield is 3905.5/set so, you still need 8000 m3 to get two cycles with no fleet bonuses.

So, I guess that explains the 500m3 hold. Since two cycles unaided with no MLUs will fill the entire ship after you make some room.

Drox


perhaps the developers don't intend on encouraging AFK gameplay?

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Dave stark
#40 - 2012-07-24 00:17:29 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Droxlyn wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Then you should be using a Mackinaw or a Retriever.

I like your advice, I'll reship to go ****. (Does pee get xxxxed out?)
If they're going to be mean on the ore hold, go with 5500 or jump up to 11000, 7500 is just silly.

Even if you GIMP your hulk as much as you can with maxxed skills, your yield is 3905.5/set so, you still need 8000 m3 to get two cycles with no fleet bonuses.

So, I guess that explains the 500m3 hold. Since two cycles unaided with no MLUs will fill the entire ship after you make some room.

Drox


perhaps the developers don't intend on encouraging AFK gameplay?

*looks at the mackinaw* no, they'd never do that.