EVE General Discussion

I'm sorry, what's your point exactly? You think high sec, low sec and null sec are segregated systems with no impact upon one another?

How would you feel about us undoing the sanctum nerf, then? Hell, lets double low and null sec mission lp and isk rewards while we're at it.

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They want their stunted little-kid egos validated.

They lack emotional development/maturity enough to know that there are ways to do this other than crassly bullying/dominating/controlling others into doing it their way, it's all "I-I-I-I-ME-ME-ME-MINE-MINE-MINE NOW-NOW-NOW-NOW!" all the time, or it's GTFO.

And this exacerbated by them refusing to acknowledge the true, full depth of meaning of the term "sandbox," even whilst often shouting it the loudest. (Such monumental hypocrisy, it's not even pitiful. What a bunch of deluded twats)

They want what they want...That's fine.

They just refuse to understand that not everyone wants the same things, nor yet uses the same means of getting them, and that they do not have the right to force what they want, how they want it on others, and that the sandbox allows others to avoid/combat this.

That's fine too:

Player-ships urp-splode more pretty than NPC ships, and if you do exploration in quiet-but-not-so-safe space, then "disappearing" completely is all too easy.

They really freaking hate that, by the way--So, as a true believer in "the most sandbox, for the greatest number" on general principle, I must say:

CCP BUFF CLAOKY NAOW!!!!111oneone!

I don't even see what your post has to do with what he posted and is that in the manifesto somewhere? I thought there were trading skills, exploration skills and builder skills, your just making crap up to keep arguing in circles for the sake of arguing.

Industry is not driven only by ship destruction but by demand and control of resources, less ships destroyed, less demand lower prices, more destroyed more demand higher prices, same goes for availability of resources, you just keep on making this up to fit your own narrow view. Product description is, do what you want where you want to do it and be whoever you want to be. It doesn't say play a WoW like mass raid game in Low sec.

But what are you arguing about really? You want low sec to be the way it is?(fine with me btw) You want everyone to do the end "raid" game? Or were you just peeved by he's description of pvp?

Cheap ships and top tier gear is a sure sign of inflation, and usually the first sign of an unhealthy economy in an MMO.

Demand is also decided by ship destruction, unless you're claiming new players joining and old players leaving generates enough demand on its own? I find that hard to believe, but if you can support the statement I'll retract my comments on the matter.

And no, my comments throughout the thread have no purely been about keeping low sec (or null sec) the same, personally I'm off the opinion that industry in null needs a major revamp and there should be some incentive for local production. I'm also an advocate of localizing production or farming of certain item types to within specific sec status areas.

E.g. null should specialise in putting out T2, low sec on faction gear and high sec on meta modules and pure ISK generation. That would allow demand to set prices determined by how much PvE is actually occuring in those areas, similar to the way deadspace module prices are priced currently.

As for Eve's product description, yes it is a sandbox MMO driven by conflict for limited resources. High sec allows you to grind ISK under in a number of ways in perfect safety, and the guards are worse in high sec than they are in WoW. The rewards should be balanced appropriately or (my preferred solution) war decs should be fixed.

At the end of the day it is not a simple matter of "play this way", it is just a matter of what is sustainable in terms of the games economy. Mudflation is not a problem to be dismissed out of hand, nor is the insidious temptation to turn to themepark MMO game design to temporarily bolster numbers.

A short burst of subs is not worth sacrificing Eves niche status for, and yes that is just my opinion, but it is one I can support with some pretty damn good sounding words.

Fair enough, makes sense actually. it's just that you sort of went of on some people here for their dislike of certain aspects of pvp or those involved in it(I know they can be generalizations). Really pvp wont change. It's sort of like the gun groups in the US that often go into a panic of loosing them and nothing ever changes, the core is just to deeply embedded.

That part was okay.



That part was useful. In fact you've pretty much echoed Poetic Stanziel's comments on the issue: The Road to New Player Retention.

That's not a tar pit to some, that's called a plan of action. Only fools rush in. Now, the exception is almost always the one who has a group of friends already out there, willing to show them the ropes, guide them and try to keep them free of explosions that pull a ship from under the nulnoob. In the past, i have played out in nulsec, but I wouldn't move out there until I felt comfortable doing so. If you want to call the a tarpit trap, feel free. But some people are not willing to become easy killmails, which I suspect is a small reason behind all this.




1) This is a sandbox game. Sure, it may say MMO, but nowhere in MMO does it dictate that those players have to play with one another. Buddies are nice, and there was a time when I played with friends. But when i started working two jobs, I barely had enough time to play. My buddies went one way, and I went another. Besides, this is also a game that proudly enspouses the phrase "Trust No One", so that kind of works against it too.

2) There have been relatively few instances where I have inadvertantly found myself smack in the middle of a gatecamp and survived. One was the teasing of the dogs on the nulsec side of EC where I spent an hour jumping into nul from Torrinos and burning back to the gate before I went poofy, just to do it again. I lost three frigates and a pod or two that night, but it was for kicks and giggles. The other times were due to incompetence on the part of the campers along with my preset warp-to BMs and a stealth bomber. Otherwise, yeah, it is damn near a death sentence. From my own experience being the gate-ganker, the only way people survived those camps was if our FC said to let them go. If we didn't get that command, it died, simple as that.

3) I do agree with the sentiment of not commiting all at once. It's always good to keep a nest egg handy in case you need it if your move turns sour down the road.

4) Or changes to ecosystems that you take no part in. I'm looking at those who meddle in the affairs and mechanics of hisec but do not partake in hisec. You are just as guilty as those who meddle in the affairs and mechanics of lo/nulsec but take no part in them. The phrase, "Mind your own gods damn business" springs to mind. Another is "Attend only to your house, and let your neighbor tend to his". I think that's gotten too hard for those who need to be in control and dictate every little minutae of every player's experience. Those are the ones lacking the most control. This is also known as "Your game is not the only game, otherwise CCP would have built it like that and it WOULD have been the only game".

Let's speak reason though...all these 'echo chamber' inhabitants you speak of...they probably number about 100 on the forums, yeah? I think that is a pretty liberal estimate when referring to individuals who post in threads such as these. Of that, half would be alts of those who either troll or have an agenda and use reverse psychological methods to attempt to get those agendas fulfilled in some way. The ones that are left are either the ones who want their hisec to not be nerfed into the ground or people who try to see the point of view of all involved. Your so-called echo chamber is borne of a chicken little mentality, a reverse play on fear to further damage what little is left to do in hisec. Even some nulsec denizens take what you are saying with a grain of salt.

Might I suggest that you attend to your own house and allow others to attend to theirs? Most people whose mains are in hisec really just don't care what happens to lo/nulsec. They just don't want those who don't play in hisec, or even care about it, to have a say in how they choose to play in it. That, my friend, is a fact.

If it's a plan of action, why do I see people continually moving their own goalposts as they get stuck in a rut of "when I get the next thing, I'll move down." It's a tar pit because people keep saying they want to move but never actually move. Then there are the people who move down, don't like it* and move back up to spread the gospel of how awful Null is. This leads to people in HS with no understanding of how Null works offering "sage" advice to newbies that's totally wrong.

*as is their right.



Nobody's forcing you to play with friends, but the game most certainly rewards cooperative effort. This is especially true with new players who have limited individual resources but who can certainly beat an older player if they work together well.



So it's a death sentence unless it's not? You just said you escaped a gate camp in EC- for an hour. Anyway, there are plenty of ways to get through or avoid (this one's more useful) gate camps, no matter how large.



That all assumes that HS, LS, Null, and WH space aren't inextricably interconnected. That assumption is laughable.

The mechanics of HS affect life in Null quite a bit.