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Hi Sec: EVE Online's Tar Pit Trap

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Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#61 - 2012-07-23 06:59:07 UTC
People don't like Low/Null because you need Covops Ships to get out there, and even when you do:
BUBBLES
BUBBLES EVERYWHERE

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt
Arnst Atram
Downgraded Avengers
Hard Knocks Citizens
#62 - 2012-07-23 08:29:57 UTC
It's not that people are afraid of leaving High Sec, it's just that there's no incentive at all to move out of High Sec if you aren't involved in a Nullblob corp and do not want to be. The fact is that High Sec is more often than not significantly more dangerous than Low/Null, but people don't leave because that's where the money is for them.

There's no real small scale PvP in Low-sec due to Gate and Station Guns. You're basically banned from fighting in anything below a Battlecruiser because of them. You can't do it in Null because it's DESERTED. You're better off joining RvB if you want that.
There's crap all money to be made that you couldn't get anyway. You can run Lowsec Anoms while being based out of High Sec and sacrifice only marginal profit, and Ratting in Low is a joke, and mind numbing grinding for rather low returns in Null anyway.

On the other hand, there's half a dozen Incursion communities operating in High Sec that can earn you several billion a month with minimal risk, money which can then be used to do things you enjoy. You can't really do this in null because the site being contested means putting your entire fleet at risk in hostile Sov-space and eventually getting Capital-blobbed.

In the end, the only reason to leave High Sec aside from Nullblob alliances (Which put the Z in zzzzzzzz) is to go to W-space.

Indeed, some corporations may be able to get it to work, but all the money in Low and Null is monopolized by gigantic Alliances that make it impossible for the vast majority of people who don't like the blob warfare playstyle to justify sticking around - so they don't.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#63 - 2012-07-23 09:47:23 UTC
Arnst Atram wrote:

all the money in Low and Null is monopolized by gigantic Alliances that make it impossible for the vast majority of people who don't like the blob warfare playstyle to justify sticking around - so they don't.


You would be more convincing if you had been to lowsec on Tranquility... even just once. Or even near it it. And undocked.







.
Fearless M0F0
Incursion PWNAGE Asc
#64 - 2012-07-23 13:02:58 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Facts are, hi sec is an echo chamber where people who have never been to, or have had limited experience in, low/null talk about how dangerous low and null is...


Facts?, from where did you get these so called "facts" ? Fox News? Roll

I lived in 0.0 for a year, we had sov and our corp even mined a couple of tech moons way before Technetium was worth anything. We tried wormholes too. The "facts" in our case is, we didn't have fun. It became a job where we had to join mandatory pvp and mining ops, run logistics to keep towers running, etc.

Here is an actual "fact" for you: we got tired and bored of the 0.0 crap. We unanchored our towers and came back to empire where we can play when we want, how we want and have fun. Bear
Pipa Porto
#65 - 2012-07-23 13:15:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Fearless M0F0 wrote:
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Facts are, hi sec is an echo chamber where people who have never been to, or have had limited experience in, low/null talk about how dangerous low and null is...


Facts?, from where did you get these so called "facts" ? Fox News? Roll

I lived in 0.0 for a year, we had sov and our corp even mined a couple of tech moons way before Technetium was worth anything. We tried wormholes too. The "facts" in our case is, we didn't have fun. It became a job where we had to join mandatory pvp and mining ops, run logistics to keep towers running, etc.

Here is an actual "fact" for you: we got tired and bored of the 0.0 crap. We unanchored our towers and came back to empire where we can play when we want, how we want and have fun. Bear


I think he's mostly talking about the posters from HS who tend to be most active on the forums, who tend to be woefully misinformed about the nature of Low/Null because they've never been there and take the stories brought back by people who didn't enjoy it* as uncolored gospel.

When I started, I was a HS miner. The Tar pit's a pretty valid analogy for a lot of newer players. I heard "I'll go when I have enough SP/ISK" often (and still hear it from old corpies who have far more SP than I do), and even said it. Finally I got put in touch with someone who helped bring me out to null, but even then the tar pit attitude of "I must have ISK at the ready" is tough to shake off.

*I have no problem with people not liking an activity that I enjoy. People have different tastes. Publicly mis-characterizing and maligning something that you have no experience with and no real understanding of, on the other had, is annoying.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#66 - 2012-07-23 13:24:03 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
I think he's mostly talking about the posters from HS who tend to be most active on the forums, who tend to be woefully misinformed about the nature of Low/Null because they've never been there and take the stories brought back by people who didn't enjoy it* as uncolored gospel.


The may very well be half the problem, the other half being the NS players who refuse to accept players doing anything outside null, and constantly are trying to force players into null.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#67 - 2012-07-23 13:27:12 UTC
dexington wrote:


The may very well be half the problem, the other half being the NS players who refuse to accept players doing anything outside null, and constantly are trying to force players into null.


Except that other half doesn't exist.


.
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#68 - 2012-07-23 13:28:03 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:


I don't want to get rid of hi sec.

I do want to keep my lo/null sec intact.


Okay so what is the problem ?
High-sec is not a threat to low sec / null.
What do you want ?


EVERYBODY KNOWS
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#69 - 2012-07-23 13:31:56 UTC
I think OP is Butthurt. Cool
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#70 - 2012-07-23 13:34:37 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:

When I started, I was a HS miner. The Tar pit's a pretty valid analogy for a lot of newer players. I heard "I'll go when I have enough SP/ISK" often (and still hear it from old corpies who have far more SP than I do), and even said it. Finally I got put in touch with someone who helped bring me out to null, but even then the tar pit attitude of "I must have ISK at the ready" is tough to shake off.


With low skills levels null is hard. Even belt rats can pose an insurmountable challenge. For PvP, if that's all you want to do it's fine (but then how do you get the isk for your ships unless corp provides?). Otherwise training up a little and getting some ISK in the bank is a good idea before heading out. You're going to lose a lot of your crap getting the hang of things in low/null.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2012-07-23 13:38:01 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
With low skills levels null is hard. Even belt rats can pose an insurmountable challenge. For PvP, if that's all you want to do it's fine (but then how do you get the isk for your ships unless corp provides?). Otherwise training up a little and getting some ISK in the bank is a good idea before heading out. You're going to lose a lot of your crap getting the hang of things in low/null.


yeah newbies can't survive in nullsec, nobody in nullsec has less than 100 million skillpoints

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Pipa Porto
#72 - 2012-07-23 13:39:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Victoria Sin wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

When I started, I was a HS miner. The Tar pit's a pretty valid analogy for a lot of newer players. I heard "I'll go when I have enough SP/ISK" often (and still hear it from old corpies who have far more SP than I do), and even said it. Finally I got put in touch with someone who helped bring me out to null, but even then the tar pit attitude of "I must have ISK at the ready" is tough to shake off.


With low skills levels null is hard. Even belt rats can pose an insurmountable challenge. For PvP, if that's all you want to do it's fine (but then how do you get the isk for your ships unless corp provides?). Otherwise training up a little and getting some ISK in the bank is a good idea before heading out. You're going to lose a lot of your crap getting the hang of things in low/null.


A Cane/Drake strong enough to belt rat is like a month of training (from 0 SP), and you can do fine with less.

I'm not saying that a small nest egg is bad. I'm talking about people spinning their wheels for years, saying "If only I got X, I'd be ready." That's what a tar pit is.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#73 - 2012-07-23 13:53:22 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
With low skills levels null is hard. Even belt rats can pose an insurmountable challenge. For PvP, if that's all you want to do it's fine (but then how do you get the isk for your ships unless corp provides?). Otherwise training up a little and getting some ISK in the bank is a good idea before heading out. You're going to lose a lot of your crap getting the hang of things in low/null.


yeah newbies can't survive in nullsec, nobody in nullsec has less than 100 million skillpoints


Don't be a dumbass. Nobody said 100,000,000 sp. Most corps have a minimum SP requirement. Anyone under that usually needs babysitting 23/7.
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Sebiestor Tribe
#74 - 2012-07-23 14:37:25 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
go to high sec to grind since it's got the fastest personal income.


No, it doesn't. I laugh everytime I see that.

John Hancock
Doctor Praetorius
Doomheim
#75 - 2012-07-23 16:48:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Doctor Praetorius
Victoria Sin wrote:
Don't be a dumbass. Nobody said 100,000,000 sp. Most corps have a minimum SP requirement. Anyone under that usually needs babysitting 23/7.

The problem there is I've watched the minimum SP requirements climb over the past few years. At 8M SP on my current active account and experience in WH space I should be good to go for 0.0. The responses are either that I don't have enough SP, I'm a noob because I lost a Hulk to a suicide gank, I'm not committed enough because I won't commit to a schedule of when I'll be playing EVE (sing I have a life and a family),or that I'm a spy because I won't submit a recent colonoscopy with my application.
Nuela
WoT Misfits
#76 - 2012-07-23 18:54:43 UTC
I have a combat alt that has tried many different types of PvP.

The problem with PvP in Eve is that the PvP in Eve isn't what you think.

As the OP talks about, the 'PvP' part of Eve is not the fights, it is the socialization/charisma that one puts in to get good friends to fight alongside you. Almost every fight is one sided and won before the ships even meet.

This IS PvP...but it is a type of PvP that is not very interesting to me. I *like* even fights!

There are games like Battleground Europe where one can fight together or, when one is outnumbered, still have fun doing ambush tactics and such. There are also games like Blood Bowl where one can get pretty much even fights.

Eve doesn't have this. The PvP is won primarily in making friends, not in the actual fighting.

So, I tend to get my PvP fix elsewhere.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#77 - 2012-07-23 18:56:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
pussnheels wrote:
[...]

Exploration , yes only thing worth doing in low sec , it is what takes me out to low sec, but sometimes unfair for those people living on the wrong side of the timezone

FW what i ve heared of people it got very interesting and exciting , according to th people i spoke with , maybe thi is the way forward for lowsec

my opinion about null sec , npc nullsec is fine rest is for the jerks who think they own the game

Hi sec working as intended


^^That.^^

[/thread]

E:

Important part emphasised.

Hey, OP, I got news for you, and all your drooling, mouth-breathing ilk:

The whole sandbox, it's for everyone to make of it what they can/want, within the rules and mechanics.

You don't get to control what others do or how they do it, unless you start paying their subs for them directly.

EVE being, EVE, naturally, if you do this for me for saaaaay...oh, I dunno...a year, then I promise I'll pay you back double the cost of your/my PLEX' at the end of that time. Twisted

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Boudicca Arbosa
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2012-07-23 18:57:48 UTC
ITT: Nullsec turds have the audacity to tell someone they're playing a sandbox game wrong.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#79 - 2012-07-23 19:03:33 UTC
Boudicca Arbosa wrote:
ITT: Nullsec turds have the audacity to tell someone they're playing a sandbox game wrong.



And ^^that,^^ too.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#80 - 2012-07-23 19:07:46 UTC
Boudicca Arbosa wrote:
ITT: Nullsec turds have the audacity to tell someone they're playing a sandbox game wrong.


ITT: Some idiot doesn't know what a sandbox is, and think it doesn't allow for discussion of game mechanics or balance.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]