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How does margin trading work?
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Jasperexty
Apple Industries Inc.
#1 - 2011-10-11 02:16:52 UTC
how does margin trading work in order to make a profit?
Heinrich Rosenmantel
The Goldman Sachs
#2 - 2011-10-11 03:00:17 UTC
It is used to make buy orders that are impossible to fill. By offering to sell good x slightly lower than the fake buy, the victim will think they can make some free money buying from the sell orders and immediately selling them to the inflated fake buy order. They get left holding a worthless item when the buy fails.
Jasperexty
Apple Industries Inc.
#3 - 2011-10-11 03:27:49 UTC
can you explain it further?
life if i buy X and i sell it for 139.5 and put a buy order for 140 they will buy the 139.5 they will then buy it from my sell order and then try to sell to my buy order. then when they do that transaction do i get profit and they get useless items?
Troy Arxen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2011-10-11 03:46:07 UTC
damn. i'm just gonna go on a limb here and say English is not your primary language, am i right?
anyways, if you're talking about the scam with margin trading its quite simple. say you put up a sell order for 1000 AB 1MN I for 100k each. in the same system you put up a buy order for 1000 AB 1MN I for 500k each and set the minimum quantity to 1000. after having the orders set up you send all your isk to an alt. an ignorant person might come along and see this and think to himself " hey i could make an easy 4M here. and buy your 1000 AB 1MN I for 100k each thinking he could sell them for 500k right away. now when he tries to sell them the guy order will cancel since you do not have enough isk in your wallet to fill the buy order. the ignorant person now has 1000 AB 1MN I's that he overpayed for.
if you mean how does the skill margin trading work just read the description its really simple. if you cant figure it out then you probably should go shoot rocks.
Bloody Wench
#5 - 2011-10-11 06:58:42 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=18942&find=unread

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Troy Arxen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-10-11 07:46:41 UTC
nice guide there bloody. pretty much says it all.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-10-11 13:14:51 UTC
Troy Arxen wrote:
damn. i'm just gonna go on a limb here and say English is not your primary language, am i right?
anyways, if you're talking about the scam with margin trading its quite simple. say you put up a sell order for 1000 AB 1MN I for 100k each. in the same system you put up a buy order for 1000 AB 1MN I for 500k each and set the minimum quantity to 1000. after having the orders set up you send all your isk to an alt. an ignorant person might come along and see this and think to himself " hey i could make an easy 4M here. and buy your 1000 AB 1MN I for 100k each thinking he could sell them for 500k right away. now when he tries to sell them the guy order will cancel since you do not have enough isk in your wallet to fill the buy order. the ignorant person now has 1000 AB 1MN I's that he overpayed for.
if you mean how does the skill margin trading work just read the description its really simple. if you cant figure it out then you probably should go shoot rocks.


I love how you make fun of the OP for not being very good with the English language and then proceed to vomit up this mess.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Adunh Slavy
#8 - 2011-10-11 16:13:31 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
I love how you make fun of the OP for not being very good with the English language and then proceed to vomit up this mess.



+1

As to the question for margin trading. Except for the scam, it isn't a particularly useful skill. You can enter more markets, and cast a wider net, either way you are stuck with whatever degree of salability the item(s) in question may have.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
#9 - 2011-10-11 16:37:47 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Troy Arxen wrote:
damn. i'm just gonna go on a limb here and say English is not your primary language, am i right?
anyways, if you're talking about the scam with margin trading its quite simple. say you put up a sell order for 1000 AB 1MN I for 100k each. in the same system you put up a buy order for 1000 AB 1MN I for 500k each and set the minimum quantity to 1000. after having the orders set up you send all your isk to an alt. an ignorant person might come along and see this and think to himself " hey i could make an easy 4M here. and buy your 1000 AB 1MN I for 100k each thinking he could sell them for 500k right away. now when he tries to sell them the guy order will cancel since you do not have enough isk in your wallet to fill the buy order. the ignorant person now has 1000 AB 1MN I's that he overpayed for.
if you mean how does the skill margin trading work just read the description its really simple. if you cant figure it out then you probably should go shoot rocks.


I love how you make fun of the OP for not being very good with the English language and then proceed to vomit up this mess.


Why don't you provide him with free grammar lessons then you critic.
flakeys
Doomheim
#10 - 2011-10-11 16:38:06 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
I love how you make fun of the OP for not being very good with the English language and then proceed to vomit up this mess.



+1

As to the question for margin trading. Except for the scam, it isn't a particularly useful skill. You can enter more markets, and cast a wider net, either way you are stuck with whatever degree of salability the item(s) in question may have.



It is a VERRY usefull skill.When i mostly did buy orders i had orders up for 50B+ , now with the margin trade skill i got a nice reserve of isk to do daily work with without it being stuck in buy orders.

Just because a lot of people don't use it or use it for ''bad stuff'' doesn't mean the skill itself is not good.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Callean Drevus
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-10-11 20:59:23 UTC
The skill itself is useful, for scamming or legitimate trade, but I always find that my money has suddenly vaporized, which is somewhat difficult to predict.

Developer/Creator of EVE Marketeer
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#12 - 2011-10-11 23:03:16 UTC
Jasperexty wrote:
how does margin trading work in order to make a profit?
Margin Trading reduces the amount of ISK you have to put in escrow up-front for a buy order:

Escrow amount = (1 - 25%) ^ margin_trading_skill_level

Margin Trading 0: 100% in escrow
Margin Trading 1: 75%
Margin Trading 2: 56%
Margin Trading 3: 42%
Margin Trading 4: 32%
Margin Trading 5: 24%

The less ISK you have in escrow, the lower the opportunity cost. You can use the ISK for something else while you wait for your buy orders to be filled.

The longer it takes for a buy order to be filled, or the more buy orders you have, the more useful Margin Trading is.
Sigras
Conglomo
#13 - 2011-10-11 23:48:55 UTC
The non scam way to use this skill is to be able to have more buy orders than you have isk because you can (usually safely) assume that all of your buy orders are not going to be filled all at once.
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2011-10-12 02:53:10 UTC
Once every few weeks, some guy comes along and liquidates his stock. In order to take advantage of the low buy prices, you want a fairly large buy order around that price. But if you place a buy order for 500mil of that item, that 500mil is stuck. You know it will eventually happen, but you don't know when and you lose out on making money with that 500mil.

So now you skill up margin trading and you only need to put in 150mil of that 500mil.. or whatever. You spread out your orders and now you have more volume moving through you. You just need to sell the orders before you get too backed-logged with assets.

I have 3.5bil in buy orders, 1.5bil in sell orders, ~600mil in escrow and ~700mil in my wallet. I buy and sell around 800mil/day. I make a percentage profit for all money that moves through me.

There is no way I could cover all of my buy orders, but I can turn them into sell orders before the buy orders complete. It's about a steady "flow" of sales. The more orders, the steadier the "flow". Margin Trading allows me to cast a wider net for more orders.