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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Interstellar travel, Capital RR, and Triage discussions

Author
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#161 - 2012-07-19 20:58:08 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
Emperor Salazar wrote:
Seriously, I can literally imagine a fleet of 100 triage archons circle jerking.

That image is terrible and you are terrible for not realizing how horrible that would be.


Can you also imagine 100 dreads alpa'ing each Archon in turn?
Can you image Remote ECM Bursts killing their locks?
Can you image specialized bombs attacking locks or capacitor detonating in the center of those Archons?
Can you imagine multiple DD's per Archon laughing at the power of Triage?
Can you imagine each Archon locking the other 99? Because they can't. A fleet of Archons more than "x" locks plus x lock slots free to lock the next primary is meaningless.

Now if your issue is with the shear increase in RR output through the Triage module, that is open for discussion, but you will doubtless also need to consider the dps analog with the Siege Dread. The increase in RR and dps from each module respectively should probably be similar.

Okay, it stopped being funny a few posts ago. Stop posting.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#162 - 2012-07-19 21:01:04 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Stop posting.

Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#163 - 2012-07-19 21:03:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Emperor Salazar
Lord Zim wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Emperor Salazar wrote:
Andy Landen wrote:


You will soon see that I know more about capital ships than you would like


Still waiting.



Quoting this again for what I think are obvious reasons.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#164 - 2012-07-19 21:22:19 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
Emperor Salazar wrote:
Seriously, I can literally imagine a fleet of 100 triage archons circle jerking.

That image is terrible and you are terrible for not realizing how horrible that would be.


Can you also imagine 100 dreads alpa'ing each Archon in turn?
Can you image Remote ECM Bursts killing their locks?
Can you image specialized bombs attacking locks or capacitor detonating in the center of those Archons?
Can you imagine multiple DD's per Archon laughing at the power of Triage?
Can you imagine each Archon locking the other 99? Because they can't. A fleet of Archons more than "x" locks plus x lock slots free to lock the next primary is meaningless.

Now if your issue is with the shear increase in RR output through the Triage module, that is open for discussion, but you will doubtless also need to consider the dps analog with the Siege Dread. The increase in RR and dps from each module respectively should probably be similar.

1: you are immune to ecm in triage
2: doesn't work when 99 archons can send you cap (you would have to permacap ALL of them, basicly not gona happen)
3: Titan's aren't that prolific and unless they time it perfectly (not gona happen) the target can get repped back to full between DD blasts
4: one achron doesn't need to lock the other 99, the other 99 just need to lock him.
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#165 - 2012-07-19 21:56:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy Landen
Threads in the Features and Ideas Discussion area are for talking about new and different features and ideas. Not for discussing how things are right now, unless consideration of a new idea requires a look at existing mechanics. But the whole point of a new idea is to talk about change. So when new mechanics are proposed, it is implied that they do not exactly follow current mechanics.

Astroniomix wrote:

1: you are immune to ecm in triage
2: doesn't work when 99 archons can send you cap (you would have to permacap ALL of them, basicly not gona happen)
3: Titan's aren't that prolific and unless they time it perfectly (not gona happen) the target can get repped back to full between DD blasts
4: one achron doesn't need to lock the other 99, the other 99 just need to lock him.


1: Immune to all EW but neuts, of course. Obviously, Triage changes would need to allow all EW. Siege as well.
2: Neut bombs by nature kill big amounts of cap for all the Archons within range.
3: Titans are prolific enough. Ask PL about their Titan program. :) They aren't alone, either. Besides, it only takes 2-3 Titans per carrier alpha. And timing is not that tough, though the carriers can see when they are being targeted by Titans .. DD in 3-2-1-Go, yeah alpha timing in fleets is quite well tested and effective.
4: True. "Hold on Archon! We are all locking you." Lock time is about 1s for triage carrier plus reaction time, which allows for about 2s for the alpha to be applied. Even the ones already locked to the primary have about 1-2 seconds of reaction time. Add the time for the armor to actually cycle and get applied, and we are looking at another 2.5 s delay. The same is true of the cruiser logis.

Here is me talking to the specific details of the issues and ignoring the distraction of personal attacks. There are a few zealous players saying that they want to troll and that I don't know nothin'. I have done logistics at all levels and security ratings of Eve, including FC and leadership, but leave it to a few determined players to substitute my facts and experience with their attacks and lack of useful posts. Eventually they will learn that we are ignoring the useless posts and only engaging the interesting and productive posts. But thanks for the free bumps anyways. lol. :)

PS, Emperor, I know some people disagree with my proposal: there is you and Lord, and Simi, and Grath plus a couple other less zealous posters on the opposing side. Then there are 10k+ other Eve subscribers in the neutral camp. Also, I have yet to see where you have established any fundamental lack of understanding about capital mechanics on my part or shown how such undermines my right to propose changes. Grath, on the other hand, has shown a fairly solid lack of understanding of applying damage through effective hitpoints, though I will give him the benefit of the doubt that his rush to "school" me simply turned his brain off temporarily. He couldn't slow down enough to realize the magnitude of the errors because of his desire to "school" me. I saw those errors and the plan to attack me instead made him look bad. He probably knows his stuff, but it looks especially bad when he says, "hey, I am the expert in the field, so pay close attention to me while I make serious blunders in considering the effect of resistances (twice) as I apply damage to raw hp." I feel for him, but it kind of serves him right, rushing to try to make me look bad with actual facts and getting it so wrong that it backfires. It would have been far more productive to leave the personal attacks and take the discussion forward slow and impartially enough to get it right.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 

Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#166 - 2012-07-19 22:00:28 UTC
The problem is you have no experience with the current state of capital warfare.

Thus any ideas you propose revolving around capital warfare or capitals in general have absolutely no validity to them. Have you noticed how many people are disagreeing with you and telling you how horribly wrong, inexperienced and stupid you sound?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#167 - 2012-07-19 22:03:29 UTC
:sigh:

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#168 - 2012-07-21 04:54:42 UTC
So in summary our proposal for Triage and Siege is:
Allow incoming RR
Allow incoming energy transfer
Allow fighters (carriers) or drones
Allow warp and incoming warp disruptors
Allow movement
Allow incoming eWar

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#169 - 2012-07-21 09:51:37 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
So in summary our proposal for Triage and Siege is:
Allow incoming RR
Allow incoming energy transfer
Allow fighters (carriers) or drones
Allow warp and incoming warp disruptors
Allow movement
Allow incoming eWar

So in summary our proposal for your posting is:
Stop posting.
Stop posting.
Stop posting.
Stop posting.
Stop posting.
Stop posting.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#170 - 2012-07-21 09:59:22 UTC
Fast travel and F2P/P2W mechanics are the bane of EVE right now. Your idea would only serve to exacerbate the former, not improve it.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.

Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#171 - 2012-07-21 14:11:56 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
So in summary our proposal for Triage and Siege is:
Allow incoming RR
Allow incoming energy transfer
Allow fighters (carriers) or drones
Allow warp and incoming warp disruptors
Allow movement
Allow incoming eWar


what the christ
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#172 - 2012-07-22 17:26:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy Landen
Mechael wrote:
Fast travel and F2P/P2W mechanics are the bane of EVE right now. Your idea would only serve to exacerbate the former, not improve it.


Let's see if I understand you correctly.
F2P = Free to Play
P2W = Pay to Win

Let's check the facts. Eve subs require money, so not F2P. Money can become assets, but the only assets that assure victory are supercaps, so you are only right about P2W for supers, but even supers can be bought without real money so not even those. As for fast travel, it takes about 2 minutes to travel to the next system, so while Eve is not "fast travel," hyperspace would make it a little faster, by nature. But with the drive cooldown timers, it would be limited.

What would be really cool would be to learn that wormhole spaces are merely isolated systems spread out through the Eve Universe, and that if one knew the location of the isolated system, then the hyperdrive could take you to it. Also, because you don't know the location, you ships computers are unable to calculate an alignment to any known system with the hyperdrive. Also that wormholes have the effect of purging the ship's computers of the virus which kills "local" and any ship which traveled to known space by hyperspace would set off a chain of events whereby local disappeared from known space systems.

PS: Lord, Simi, Emperor, Waaaa! lol at your vigorous defense against unleashing Triage/Siege, and against hyperspace travel even when you cannot open your minds or bring logic to the table. at least you can "Waaaa!" about someone wanting to talk about those things.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#173 - 2012-07-22 17:33:38 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Okay, it stopped being funny a few posts ago. Stop posting.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#174 - 2012-07-22 23:19:33 UTC
I'd just like to remind everyone, no one in particular, but...

please remember that suicide is always an option.
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#175 - 2012-07-23 18:25:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy Landen
In summary of the hyperspace proposal:
A ship can fit a hyperspace drive as either a medium slot propulsion-style module, or as a rig. Both will consume capacitor for fuel depending on the ship type. The medium slot module will use isotopes (depending on ship race) after the capacitor falls below 2/3 in order to supplement the capacitor to maintain peak cap regen. Lacking the module or the isotopes, the travel speed and capacitor usage will be proportionally reduced to match the capacitor peak recharge. The medium slot module consumes 20 GJ/s or 500 GJ/ly The cycle time is one sec and activation is 20 GJ. The maximum range given sufficient capacitor or fuel is 15.5 ly. The maximum travel speed is 2.4 ly/min. Hyperspace travel may be stopped at any time during the trip with Ctrl-space.

In order to travel, right-click on the ship's capacitor after the most recent gate jump/session change is required to set the destination to any celestial object, bookmark, or 100% scan result in any system or in deep space within range and a distant marker will display on the overview for alignment. The ship must not have any hull damage, else the ship's hull will be torn apart while in hyperdrive. The ship will align toward the destination point and fuel will be consumed when the module is activated, and once it reaches the required speed (same as for warp), the ship will enter hyperspace travel at the same time that a hyperspace window opens with 2500 m in front of it.

Any ship with a hyperspace drive will be able to align and lock onto the same window by right-clicking the capacitor so long as the ship is traveling in hyperspace and the following ships have sufficient fuel/capacitor to follow. Ships that enter hyperspace at the exact same moment may lock each other and engage in capacitor warfare and energy transfer. If at any time the capacitor falls below 2/3, fuel loaded in the medium slot module will be drawn as much as is needed to fill the capacitor up to 1/3 + 20 GJ for the next cycle. Once the isotopes fuel is depleted or in the case of the hyperspace rig (which cannot use isotopes), the ship will automatically reduce speed in hyperspace to match the peak capacitor regen rate. All other ships will fly past and "off-grid" at that point and all locks will break. If the ship leaves hyperspace, the hyperspace drive will cool down for 2 hours before it can be engaged again. The ship may cloak and wait out the time/log off after all timers, or sit there uncloaked and be scanned out by deep space probes. Those ships which entered the hyperspace window (which remains up while any ship is traveling through it) will continue to the target even if the originating ship dropped out of hyperspace early. Their hyperdrives will also have to cool down for two hours.

Only one hyperdrive may be fit per ship. 25 CPU and 1 PG. Being completely different from warp technology, nothing can stop a hyperdrive from engaging once the hull hp (100%), alignment and fuel requirements are met. (paragraphs added)

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#176 - 2012-07-23 18:27:19 UTC
TL/DR

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#177 - 2012-07-23 19:10:40 UTC
Paragraphs: completely overrated.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#178 - 2012-07-23 19:23:49 UTC
In summary of this thread:

hurf blurf

:suicide:
Hiyora Akachi
Blood Alcohol Content
T O P S H E L F
#179 - 2012-07-23 22:39:01 UTC
Quick summary:

1 Non-capital pilot proposing sweepign changes that would probably break everything we hold near and dear.

Many Cap pilots telling him hes a complete moron.

1 Non Cap pilot ignoring what others are saying.

Some people telling him he should kill himself.

Others considering murdering him.



YW o7
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#180 - 2012-07-23 22:53:45 UTC
He can sit in a capital though.

Doesn't that make him a capital pilot?