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Hi Sec: EVE Online's Tar Pit Trap

First post
Author
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#41 - 2012-07-22 21:12:40 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Gun Gal wrote:
Exactly

Hisec is what it is, if you get rid of it, you end EVE.

The sandbox is for everyone, and whatever playstyle the people want.

Far more subscriptions are highsec. So deal with it.

Sorry, I must have missed the part where CCP released statistics on player distribution in Eve.

All I've seen is character distribution. And given the average SP of high sec players, I'd put a fair bit of money on the vast majority of high sec being alts.
All I've seen is character distribution. And given the average conversations of high sec players, I'd put a fair bit of money on the majority of high sec being new players.

Quote:
And those in high sec that aren't alts, given that they average at <5m SP who the hell cares about them anyway? What is a more valued customer, a 6 month or older player or one that joins for a few months and then quits? What player type would you cater to if you were running a business?
Yeah who needs new customers as a business. Throw all the money on the bittervets and hose all the newbies because lord knows newbies NEVER EVER stick around!!! That's a sure fire plan to keep the game alive...

What's funny is you're not even intelligent enough to realize how the logical fallacy you're pushing relates to you.

umad?

And for what its worth, I'm usually pretty newbie friendly. However dumbing down low sec and pushing away older players is pretty ********. Player retention is good in Eve outside of high sec, so if your solution to get more players outside of high sec is to make low sec more like high sec it is self defeating.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#42 - 2012-07-22 21:18:43 UTC
Also, how the hell are "conversations" a metric? You mean you've spoken to a few high sec players and they happen to be rookies? Well done, you worked out that only rookies and people dumb enough to still live in high sec actually chat in local in whatever mission hub you live in.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

General Gareth Bryne
Antisocial Malkavians
#43 - 2012-07-22 21:31:01 UTC
The people keeping me from going/staying in low/null are the elite PVP master douches IN low and null.

See... this is a GAME to me. Not a lifestyle, not a third job.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#44 - 2012-07-22 21:38:07 UTC
General Gareth Bryne wrote:
The people keeping me from going/staying in low/null are the elite PVP master douches IN low and null.

See... this is a GAME to me. Not a lifestyle, not a third job.

The last time I logged into Eve was a few weeks ago, what does how much we play have to do with whether we live in low, null or highsec?

I would have thought seeing Eve as a "game" would have made you more inclined to risk your imaginary ship, rather than cowering in high sec like a little girl?

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

ashley Eoner
#45 - 2012-07-22 21:51:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Simi Kusoni wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Gun Gal wrote:
Exactly

Hisec is what it is, if you get rid of it, you end EVE.

The sandbox is for everyone, and whatever playstyle the people want.

Far more subscriptions are highsec. So deal with it.

Sorry, I must have missed the part where CCP released statistics on player distribution in Eve.

All I've seen is character distribution. And given the average SP of high sec players, I'd put a fair bit of money on the vast majority of high sec being alts.
All I've seen is character distribution. And given the average conversations of high sec players, I'd put a fair bit of money on the majority of high sec being new players.

Quote:
And those in high sec that aren't alts, given that they average at <5m SP who the hell cares about them anyway? What is a more valued customer, a 6 month or older player or one that joins for a few months and then quits? What player type would you cater to if you were running a business?
Yeah who needs new customers as a business. Throw all the money on the bittervets and hose all the newbies because lord knows newbies NEVER EVER stick around!!! That's a sure fire plan to keep the game alive...

What's funny is you're not even intelligent enough to realize how the logical fallacy you're pushing relates to you.

umad?

And for what its worth, I'm usually pretty newbie friendly. However dumbing down low sec and pushing away older players is pretty ********. Player retention is good in Eve outside of high sec, so if your solution to get more players outside of high sec is to make low sec more like high sec it is self defeating.
Ignorance is indeed bliss. Some day if you grow up a little intellectually you'll bad mad at yourself for ever being this stupid.



For the mod that will inevitably look at this thread I would like you to look up the definition of stupid before modifying this post.

Stupid :

Lacking intelligence or common sense


This fellow lacks common sense so badly that they cannot even realize that they were a newbie themselves and that they stuck around which completely invalidates their original argument. Then this fellow said that businesses should focus only on their current customers and not on expanding their customer base which is as far away from common sense in the business community as you can get.


EDIT : For even more giggles the dude admits to barely even logging into the game.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#46 - 2012-07-22 22:03:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Simi Kusoni
ashley Eoner wrote:
Ignorance is indeed bliss. Some day if you grow up a little intellectually you'll bad mad at yourself for ever being this stupid.



For the mod that will inevitably look at this thread I would like you to look up the definition of stupid before modifying this post.

Stupid :

Lacking intelligence or common sense


This fellow lacks common sense so badly that they cannot even realize that they were a newbie themselves and that they stuck around which completely invalidates their original argument. Then this fellow said that businesses should focus only on their current customers and not on expanding their customer base which is as far away from common sense in the business community as you can get.

Have you finished editing and rewriting your post yet? Jesus, its an internet forum, we don't care about what you have to say enough that you need to spend 20 minutes writing it.

And I was a newbie before level fours existed, and when it was considerably more difficult to make ISK. The fact that some players stick around also has no impact on average player retention. Lrn2statistics I guess.

I also barely log into the game, yet keep three accounts going. What's your point? I have a job and a gf, unfortunately I cannot dedicate all my time to Eve.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

ashley Eoner
#47 - 2012-07-22 22:20:03 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Simi Kusoni wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Ignorance is indeed bliss. Some day if you grow up a little intellectually you'll bad mad at yourself for ever being this stupid.



For the mod that will inevitably look at this thread I would like you to look up the definition of stupid before modifying this post.

Stupid :

Lacking intelligence or common sense


This fellow lacks common sense so badly that they cannot even realize that they were a newbie themselves and that they stuck around which completely invalidates their original argument. Then this fellow said that businesses should focus only on their current customers and not on expanding their customer base which is as far away from common sense in the business community as you can get.

Have you finished editing and rewriting your post yet? Jesus, its an internet forum, we don't care about what you have to say enough that you need to spend 20 minutes writing it.

And I was a newbie before level fours existed, and when it was considerably more difficult to make ISK. The fact that some players stick around also has no impact on average player retention. Lrn2statistics I guess.

I also barely log into the game, yet keep three accounts going. What's your point? I have a job and a gf, unfortunately I cannot dedicate all my time to Eve.
Congrats you've now convinced me that you're just a trollolol because there's absolutely no way someone could be this incoherent with their positions in one thread without trying to be that way.

I just started playing the game and I have three accounts myself. My wife has two accounts to herself too and she also recently started...
AngelFood
#48 - 2012-07-22 22:21:06 UTC
In 7 years of a -do what I like- playing style always changing and moving, I have never felt more cosy and risk free isk making than when I was in a large sov alliance in nullsec. Surrounded by sov with alliance chat, intel and other channels all keeping me updated on everything going on within 10+ jumps of my cosy little isk machine system.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#49 - 2012-07-22 22:34:46 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Have you finished editing and rewriting your post yet? Jesus, its an internet forum, we don't care about what you have to say enough that you need to spend 20 minutes writing it.

And I was a newbie before level fours existed, and when it was considerably more difficult to make ISK. The fact that some players stick around also has no impact on average player retention. Lrn2statistics I guess.

I also barely log into the game, yet keep three accounts going. What's your point? I have a job and a gf, unfortunately I cannot dedicate all my time to Eve.
Congrats you've now convinced me that you're just a trollolol because there's absolutely no way someone could be this incoherent with their positions in one thread without trying to be that way.

How is that logically incoherent?

Maybe this would be easier Ashley if you just came out and said your position on the matter? Instead of you trying to rage post, because you aren't very good at it.

Sit down, have a long think about what you'd like to say. Then write a nice little coherent post, check it for grammatical errors four or five times over, and post it.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Aramis Rosicrux
Ordo Rosa Crux Templaris
#50 - 2012-07-22 22:46:54 UTC
AngelFood wrote:
In 7 years of a -do what I like- playing style always changing and moving, I have never felt more cozy and risk free isk making than when I was in a large sov alliance in nullsec.

Surrounded by sov with alliance chat, intel and other channels all keeping me updated on everything going on within 10+ jumps of my cosy little isk machine system.

This is so true. While it is difficult to gain sov, once an alliance gets in and controls their region, has several intel channels, and jump gates, being in an alliance you have very low risk.

The problem is, to be in a large corp or alliance, you have to put us with comms full of rude, stupid and often racist, vulgar or sexist comments. The bigger the alliance, the highter the chance you do not want your family to overhear the comms.
Unwise youth I can tolerate, but outright bigotry I will not. Also, you have to put up with petty little dictatorial egos to be allowed in.

Low sec is a carebear heaven for PvPers. They have low risk, compared to PvErs and miners or even ratters.

A properly fitted mission ship is dessert for the carebear PvPers.

So, yeah, I do not get to fly in 0.0, I can never solo a Sanctum... not because of the game but because of the NBSI rules.

Aramis Rosicrux

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Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#51 - 2012-07-22 22:49:33 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings[... wrote:
hi sec is an echo chamber where people who have never been to, or have had limited experience in, low/null talk about how dangerous low and null is.[...]


Well duh.

At any rate, if only people who are strictly High-Sec dwellers knew that you can find out about stuff to do in High-Sec AFTER living in low/null, then they would go to low/null so that they could go back to high-sec and make money to go back to low/null and i managed to confuse myself.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

DrSmegma
Smegma United
#52 - 2012-07-22 22:49:39 UTC
Isn't low sec that boring empty space where all the scum hangs out to talk about how idiotic and safe high sec is etc etc.

Eve too complicated? Try Astrum Regatta.

Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#53 - 2012-07-22 22:59:47 UTC
DrSmegma wrote:
Isn't low sec that boring empty space where all the scum hangs out to talk about how idiotic and safe high sec is etc etc.


Low-sec is the retirement home for old null-sec bitter, PTSD veterans.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Adalun Dey
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2012-07-22 23:07:24 UTC
Lowsec IS a dangerous place. This one time I was in lowsec, there was this guy who played the flute and .... wait .... that was bandcamp.

Anyway, there is a wise lesson to be learned here boys and girls: never EVER leave highsec



.... or join bandcamp.

[i]" Take my love, take my land, take me where I can not stand, I don't care, I'm still free. You can't take the sky from me. "[/i]

Savnire Jacitu
Undead Retirement Crypt
#55 - 2012-07-22 23:37:36 UTC
I live in hi-sec, hang out in low sec, and go to nul sec to get blow up for laughs. Where is your god now.

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#56 - 2012-07-22 23:48:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Veshta Yoshida
Read it, won't read again.
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
...And then, because the hi seccers are moving their goalpost, they demand CCP put a hard limit on the risk for them....

Sorry to burst your bubble (not really), but we are all guilty of that .. ref: Sanctum nerf. Stones, glasshouses and so on.
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Get a buddy, in fact get as many buddies as you can.

Blobbing should not be the alpha and omega .. even in a MMO. Ball was dropped by CCP way back when, but according to Unifex they are trying to find that elusive sphere once again. Having wing mates should augment ones game, not be a pre-requisite .. huge difference.
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Knowledge is Power...

Problem is that Eve does not exactly have the full introduction available for newcomers, tutorial is very basic (in Eve terms), but again Unifex seems intent on improving upon it which is so far beyond good that no word yet exists to describe it .. for knowledge truly is power.
Telling people to essentially ask Google or random (notoriously evil) characters for assistance .. need I go on?
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Don't Commit All At Once....

No comment. Generally good advice .. ties into to the meme "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose".
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Don't Demand Changes to Ecosystems You Don't Understand...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm .. did I miss a "m"? Smile
Afraid that one would/should go out to everyone in Eve were it to be acceptable as a criterion. All flames "against" high, low or null are usually from characters with limited if any experience in said sphere .. Eve is unique in one aspect only .. the one server. Were we able to play into that by integrating the differing areas of the sandbox and making them inter-dependent then all cries for nerfs to one or the other would be silenced.
PS: Been there, done that (Except prolonged worms because that's just gross!).

In short: The idea of a tar pit only exist in your head because your personal experience has been better than the "noob" you try to educate. Onus in on CCP to provide the framework with which a newcomer can be encouraged to take the leap, it should not all be on the hapless to make sense of this convoluted world of ours.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#57 - 2012-07-23 01:14:54 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
In short: The idea of a tar pit only exist in your head because your personal experience has been better than the "noob" you try to educate. Onus in on CCP to provide the framework with which a newcomer can be encouraged to take the leap, it should not all be on the hapless to make sense of this convoluted world of ours.


Read it again. That is just what he said.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#58 - 2012-07-23 03:58:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
Simi Kusoni wrote:
General Gareth Bryne wrote:
The people keeping me from going/staying in low/null are the elite PVP master douches IN low and null.

See... this is a GAME to me. Not a lifestyle, not a third job.

The last time I logged into Eve was a few weeks ago, what does how much we play have to do with whether we live in low, null or highsec?

I would have thought seeing Eve as a "game" would have made you more inclined to risk your imaginary ship, rather than cowering in high sec like a little girl?



lol I perfer high sec, but have no qualms jumping a untanked Hulk down a null pipline for ***** n giggles. That perfer High sec is that "cowering"?

And I think you missed the gist of his post (or chose to ignore it). It wasnt about the amont of time you play but the assholes in null/low that meet you when you go there lol

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

pussnheels
Viziam
#59 - 2012-07-23 05:07:51 UTC
all of the regions hi sec low sec and null sec are working as intended and they all attract players who play the game how they want to play it

Why lo sec is so empty and underused , my opinion , why take the risk for something that isn't worth the extra work , hassle and risk
Mining in low sec come on for those few rocks of midrange ores not worth the logistics and the little bit of extra risk

missions , they don't pay that much extra so again why take the risk certainly not for lvl 5 missions , who tend to be missions against other faction , again not worth the hassle and the standing loss

PI yes PI in low sec is much more profitable and it did draw players into low sec but unless you are a new player who doesn't know how the MWD cloak trick works , pretty risk free if you don't do stupid things

Exploration , yes only thing worth doing in low sec , it is what takes me out to low sec, but sometimes unfair for those people living on the wrong side of the timezone

FW what i ve heared of people it got very interesting and exciting , according to th people i spoke with , maybe thi is the way forward for lowsec

my opinion about null sec , npc nullsec is fine rest is for the jerks who think they own the game

Hi sec working as intended

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire

Yolanta Geezenstack
GWA Corp
#60 - 2012-07-23 05:38:31 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
And those in high sec that aren't alts, given that they average at <5m SP who the hell cares about them anyway? What is a more valued customer, a 6 month or older player or one that joins for a few months and then quits? What player type would you cater to if you were running a business?


Luckily the CEO of my (player) corporation thinks different and has gotten a lot of non-alts, <5m SP newbie players like me under his wings and is now desperately trying to teach them. And maybe that's what will prevent us newbies from quitting after " few months". Roll