EVE General Discussion

you have the retri dude. just because it doesnt have a the ability to have a AB AND a POINT doesnt mean a dam thing. if you have the conceit to tell me that you cant solo/kill anybody cause they will warp off, go run into a brick wall. That senario of small scale pvp is freaking gone, everybody is packing points, just because 1 ship cant tackle is deemed crap.

yea whatever.

Some AF are simple to fix. Change the Wolf from a 5-2-4 slot layout to a 5-3-3. Give both it and the Jaguar a tracking bonus. Minmatar is done.

Give the Enyo a similar 5-3-3 slot layout and another damage bonus. Make the retribution have a 5-2-4 slot layout and armor bonuses on top of it's T2 resists. Give the harpy a tracking bonus.

The Hawk, Vengeance, and Ishkur are more difficult and so I won't comment on them.

For the Retribution , since its a damn slowboat.
Don't need a mid, it wasn't meant for soloing, its a gang ship

Amarr Frigate Skill Bonus:

10% bonus to Small Energy Turret Optimal Range per level
10% bonus to Small Energy Turret Damage per level


Assault Ships Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to Small Energy Turret Cap Use per level
5% bonus to Armor Resistances per level
5% bonus to Capacitor Recharge Rate per level


That would be a desirable Retribution.

Vengeance status:

Amarr Frigate Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to Rocket Damage per level
5% bonus to rocket explosion velocity and flight time per level

Assault Ships Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to Armor Resistances per level
5% bonus to Capacitor Recharge Rate per level

IMO


Hope there is a dev looking this topic, Amarr frigates deserve some love, besides the Punisher :(

Its apperent you don't fly AF's often.

Give jag and wolf a tracking bonus and you will disrupt everything.

Giving the enyo a third slot wont do ****, its still slow (there are ways around this)

Retribuition, your suggestion won't really help it, not really a pvp ship imo.

Harpy...wait for the hybrid buff and THEN make a suggestion.

Hawk...its fine
Venge...its fine
Ishkur...its ****.......wait...no...its fine

The Enyo's DPS advantage over the Wolf is anemic. My wolf setup gets 300 DPS with 17.55km falloff. The double damage bonus is also par for the course with the Enyo's bigger cousin, the Deimos. Any kind of assault ship buff is best kept really simple.

The rifter's slot layout is 4-3-3. It's one of the best frigates out there. A wolf is just plain foreign when compared to that platform due to it's two mids. IMHO, a 5-3-3 Wolf with four damage bonuses would be a rifter on steroids - as it should be.

I don't really see the point in giving assault frigates a fourth bonus.

Now, with the exception of the retribution, which needs a second midslot to bring it in line with other DPS assault frigs, I think that assault frigs on the whole are very balanced as they are.

Minmatar:

Jaguar: All-Rounder, Good Slots, Good Gun-based DPS, Good Tank, Good Tackle.

Wolf: DPS Boat, Sacrifices Slots / Tackle for Increased DPS, Good Tank.


Gallente:

Ishkur: All-Rounder, Good Slots, Good Mix of Drone/Gun-Based DPS+Ewar, Good Tank, Good Tackle.

Enyo: DPS Boat, Sacrifices Slots / Tackle for increased DPS, Good Tank.


Caldari:

Hawk: DPS/Tank Boat, Sacrificed Low Slot, High Rocket-Based DPS, Strong Tank, Good Tackle.

Harpy: DPS Boat, Sacrifices Fitting and Rocket Based DPS for Blaster/Railgun DPS, Good Tank, Good Tackle.


Amarr:

Vengeance: Tank Boat, Average Rocket DPS outweighed by Very Strong Tank, Good Tackle.

Retribution: DPS Boat, Lack of Midslots renders unusable solo, Good Laser-Based DPS, Good Tank.




Now as I said, really the Retribution is the only ship that needs some work. I wonder if people who complain about Vengeances have ever flown one since the rocket patch. Vengeance is about staying power not stopping power, and rockets are the ultimate weapon to compliment this as they do not rely on tracking or falloff.

Every other T2 Frigate is Balanced for its Role and has alot of application in combat. Adding a 4th set of bonuses to each will just require every one of them to be rebalanced and most likely Nerfed in future, because lets face it, alot of people will complain about new bonuses as opposed to just balancing the only bad link in the chain (Retribution). Seems like a total 1 step forward, 2 steps back solution to a non-existent problem.

Fix The Retribution.

Leave Everything Else.

PS. I do actually fly assault frigates (as well as T1 and Faction) on a near daily basis. =P

AF's do not need across the board buffing. Screaming for a 4th bonus just for a 4th bonus is arbitrary and assinine. Might as well go all the way and demand to have 8 bonuses just because bombers get 8 bonuses ( 9 if using covert cyno is considered a bonus). Quality and synergy is more important that quantity. Also, blanket bonuses have been shown to break balance inter-class, as evidenced by the AB bonus that made its way to Sisi, as well as merely exacerbating the imbalances intra-class.

Intra-class balance advanced significantly with the rocket buff. The Hawk and Vengence are now decent ships and offer a viable alternative to the Jag/Wolf/Ishkur status-quo of just a few years ago. Because of the effect weapon system changes can have on ships, I would prefer to see the hybrid fix on TQ for a few months before any attempt at modifying the Harpy and Enyo. Especially since the enyo (and to lesser degree Harpy) has been shown to be competative in the hands of a few pilots, even though average players fail utterly with them.

As for the retribution the stigma of a 1 mid ship is going to be tough to counter, given that 1-mid slot makes it virtually impossible to generate a solo killmail against an awake opponent. As has been suggested, the shortcomming is mitigated by having a gangmember tackle for you, but many AF pilots are running solo or "solo". Until the demographic changes there is little option except adding a mid, and once the demographic changes any interim boosts will become potentially balance breaking.

So in other words: Dont do anything to AF's until the hybrid changes have had time to digest, and then only buff (intra-class) as needed.

Afs need something. I have three that I never even take out anymore because I can use a frig almost as effectively for a fraction of the cost. I agree with the rest of the consensus as far as Amarr, those AFs need some serious love. But as a whole, they need some kind of buff, whether it be speed, EHP, whatever, just something.

it's quite meh tbh.

here's a better one:


amarr frig bonus:

10% bonus to Small Energy Turret Cap Use per level
5% bonus to Small Energy Turret Damage per level

AF bonus:
10% bonus to Small Energy Turret Optimal Range per level
5% bonus to small energy turret tracking


+ 1 turret, fittings to accomodate 5th turret, a bit of mass shaved off.


retri fixed.

The destroyer is to the assault frigate as the battlecruiser is to the heavy assault ship.

Sure, you might not always win in Drakes against an evenly matched armor HAC fleet, but you have the potential to cause much more isk damage to them as they can to you. If you play to your strengths (superior range, ability to kite), and their weaknesses (they have to be up close and personal for any sort of damage) you can pull out an upset. The situation is similar in destroyer vs assault frigate fleet fights.

Although I think destroyers (and interdictors) could use a buff when it comes to EHP, a buff to assault frigate damage and EHP won't erase the destroyer/assault frigate balance. Cruisers will still have a chance against AF's because they have much more flexibility when it comes to drones and energy neuts, but the fights between AF's and cruisers will be closer and require more skill on both sides.

When in comes to interdictors, unfortunately their main purpose is to launch bubbles, which are unable to be used in lowsec. I think that increasing their EHP to assault frigate levels or higher to turn them into miniature field command ships (like the Slepnir or Nighthawk) would serve to help to increase their purpose. Of course, the devs need to make interdictors that are not the Sabre more viable. This would need to be done carefully as to not overlap T1 cruisers, although cost is a big issue here.

As much as I want to believe rockets have been fixed, they still lack the DPS they need to compete. I don't believe that rockets are FOTM. The Hookbill is a good ship not because of the dps it puts out, but because it has -->5<-- midslots giving it a very large amount of flexibility.