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Hi Sec: EVE Online's Tar Pit Trap

First post
Author
Scien Inkunen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-07-22 10:44:15 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Facts are, hi sec is an echo chamber where people who have never been to, or have had limited experience in, low/null talk about how dangerous low and null is. And because these ideas are never balanced with realistic feedback, this fear of the unknown festers and evolves into an insurmountable obstacle.

The trap is thinking that with just a slightly better ship or just a few more skillpoints that this obstacle will go away, but the massive amount of FUD spread by hi seccers creates a moving goalpost. No matter how far you advance, you can always find a further goal.

And then, because the hi seccers are moving their goalpost, they demand CCP put a hard limit on the risk for them. They demand changes that are designed to remove any sort of risk of moving to lo or null because, in their minds, they believe that even attempting to go to those places currently is a death sentence. This is where the more bizarre ideas for small holdings and making solo more viable come from.

Many of the denizens of the tar pit will blame others for their own failings. They will blame others for finding teams and working together. They will say that there's too much politics and that null sec attracts too many narcissists. They will claim that CCP has intentionally designed the game to feed the lo/null "1%" with 99% cannon fodder. They will even say that CCP should remove the benefits of flying with a team to make it easier for them.

This only transfers their own insecurities about lo sec onto others.

Avoiding the Tar Pit


  • EVE Lifts Those Who Lift Each Other - Get a buddy, in fact get as many buddies as you can. This is not a game that rewards flying solo, so don't try to play it like that. This is not a game for people who don't want to work together. This game rewards cooperation and teamwork over phat l3wtz.
  • Knowledge is Power - Instead of sitting in hi sec in ignorance, try learning some of the game mechanics that the pirates intend to use against you. If you honestly believe that jumping into a gate camp is an automatic death sentence, then you are doing it wrong. You can empower yourself by learning the traps they expect you to fall for and avoiding them.
  • Don't Commit All At Once - You don't need to move your noctis and golem to lo sec to get into lo sec. You should start small, with cruisers and stuff. And try to get a team when you do commit. Once you get the feel of your region you can start bringing in the bigger stuff. Actually, you will find that for most PVP the bigger stuff isn't even that great!
  • Don't Demand Changes to Ecosystems You Don't Understand - If you are willing to admit you've never lived in lo/null, don't suggest changes to those systems! This will only serve to make you look like a fool to those who actually do live in those places and are not stuck in the hi sec tar pit trap.


Remember above all that the first step to lifting yourself is to lift each other.


Are you lonely down there?

Read the "Fart file" and you will understand the meaning of life !

Riknarr
Midhalla
#22 - 2012-07-22 11:08:44 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
"headset wearing rent slave"

you really can't make this **** up


Yes you certainly can make this stuff up, but I haven't. Thanks for reading - perhaps my experience of null isn't the norm but; my alt has to pay rent & is required to have voice coms for fleet (not casual friendly owing to how and where I use my PC).
I lived in a wh space for four months a few years ago, that was much better than the time I've been in null.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-07-22 12:33:37 UTC
Riknarr wrote:
Headset wearing rent slave

Large Collidable Object wrote:
The mere memory has me thinking that I can't possibly eat as much as I'd like to throw up.


Two best lines on the forums

/thread.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.

Spurty
#24 - 2012-07-22 12:50:50 UTC
Riknarr wrote:


Headset wearing rent slave should not be pushed as the end game of EVE. I've read this all hundreds of times before in similar threads. Good luck.



You're sort of right here.

You need friends to succeed in low / null sec
In order to communicate with the other humans in your community, talking is important. it gives you an identity you can't have if you only type (bots type / humans talk).
Everyone is important in these communities in low and null sec
Don't have a voice? How are you going to look out for your friends when they are in trouble and need you?
If you think typing is good enough, you have issues.

The being a renter issue is becuase there is no tax on blue lists

But this is an mmo. Playing solo means you're really only looking in from outside.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#25 - 2012-07-22 13:13:00 UTC
Been in sov nullsec for several months, then I lost the time to play an active part in there. There were streaks of fun, submerged in a sea of boredom and lack of opportunities that my hi sec alts had.

If I did not have my hi sec alts providing me with some diversions (mainly manufacturing, research, trading, missioning...) I would have quit EvE, my 0.0 life existed when enough other guys were online to actually be able and pull fleets and ops together.

If one day they made hi sec like nullsec, EvE would not be the game for me any longer.

Of course the members of 1 third party, closed community feel good each with the others, all the best for them. The remaining players don't have such luxury and sometimes have really to endure the crap that fuels those "0.0 is the sucks" urban legends.
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2012-07-22 14:41:47 UTC
Right now I have characters in two different alliances.

In one alliance, I can rat only in alliance-wide ratting systems and cannot rat in the "private" corp systems, regardless if they're being used or not, and have been shot for passing through other people's ratting systems for not moving fast enough. There have been maybe 2 scheduled OPs this month, both which required very tight comms discipline even though they were "fun" roams. If the major alliance we are attached to has a CTA, we are expected to attend, being online and not in the CTA can get you kicked, and there's no ship replacement. For these rights I pay a decent chunk of change a month.

In the other alliance, I can rat pretty much anywhere my alliance holds sov, as can anyone else in the alliance. There are several ops every day, and if you want you can bring a rifter (provided by the alliance for free) to any op just to have fun. If you want to bring a more expensive ship, there is full reimbursement. People have never even heard of CTAs, and comms are for the most part pretty open. If you dont want to play Eve Online: A Terrible Game you can just hop in channel with some other alliance mates and play pretty much whatever you want (I went on a 4 hour trek in DayZ last night). What steep fees do I pay for all this? 10% corp tax a month.

The first alliance is what nullsec used to be, and in some places still is. The second alliance is why the CFC has been so successful.
Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
#27 - 2012-07-22 14:52:56 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Facts are, hi sec is an echo chamber where people who have never been to, or have had limited experience in, low/null talk about how dangerous low and null is.



It really, REALLY isn't as bad as people make out. I've recently flown a talos unscouted through over 50 jumps of null, starting in Etherium reach and working my way through curse, wicked creek, and catch. I'm currently in omist. I've run into a few camps (including a rather nasty frig gang), but as said before, hitting a camp doesn't mean instant death. Even flying through main station systems, people don't jump straight on you, because they either don't have a gang up, or are busy trying to locate the gang that is "inevitably" behind you.

In null, they are as scared of you as you are of them, so grab a ship and get going, what have you got to lose?

namron 7
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-07-22 15:04:12 UTC
Highsec for the casuals

Nullsec for the no life shutins

Lowsec for the win

Thanks for the help

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#29 - 2012-07-22 15:05:30 UTC
Gun Gal wrote:
Exactly

Hisec is what it is, if you get rid of it, you end EVE.

The sandbox is for everyone, and whatever playstyle the people want.

Far more subscriptions are highsec. So deal with it.

Sorry, I must have missed the part where CCP released statistics on player distribution in Eve.

All I've seen is character distribution. And given the average SP of high sec players, I'd put a fair bit of money on the vast majority of high sec being alts.

And those in high sec that aren't alts, given that they average at <5m SP who the hell cares about them anyway? What is a more valued customer, a 6 month or older player or one that joins for a few months and then quits? What player type would you cater to if you were running a business?

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Riknarr
Midhalla
#30 - 2012-07-22 15:13:30 UTC
Spurty wrote:
Riknarr wrote:


Headset wearing rent slave should not be pushed as the end game of EVE. I've read this all hundreds of times before in similar threads. Good luck.



You're sort of right here.

You need friends to succeed in low / null sec
In order to communicate with the other humans in your community, talking is important. it gives you an identity you can't have if you only type (bots type / humans talk).
Everyone is important in these communities in low and null sec
Don't have a voice? How are you going to look out for your friends when they are in trouble and need you?
If you think typing is good enough, you have issues.

The being a renter issue is becuase there is no tax on blue lists

But this is an mmo. Playing solo means you're really only looking in from outside.


Fair enough, and I agree with you. Perhaps you're just generally making a point to a type of player who plays solo, I don't.
When I started EVE in 2008, it was marketed as a growing sandbox game leading to the whole SciFi simulation experience. Now it seems to be pushed as something much more limited with a massive null sec alliance endgame.
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-07-22 15:29:14 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
This is not a game that rewards flying solo, so don't try to play it like that.
Another fewl trying to tell me what to do and how to play. I fly solo, period. Don't care what you think/say/believe.

Quote:
This is not a game for people who don't want to work together.

Bullshit. I fly solo, period. Don't care what you think/say/believe.

I have plenty of fun and different experiences than you. But I get my 15 bucks a month worth...

YuuKnow
The Scope
#32 - 2012-07-22 16:57:32 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Facts are, hi sec is an echo chamber where people who have never been to, or have had limited experience in, low/null talk about how dangerous low and null is. And because these ideas are never balanced with realistic feedback, this fear of the unknown festers and evolves into an insurmountable obstacle.

The trap is thinking that with just a slightly better ship or just a few more skillpoints that this obstacle will go away, but the massive amount of FUD spread by hi seccers creates a moving goalpost. No matter how far you advance, you can always find a further goal.

And then, because the hi seccers are moving their goalpost, they demand CCP put a hard limit on the risk for them. They demand changes that are designed to remove any sort of risk of moving to lo or null because, in their minds, they believe that even attempting to go to those places currently is a death sentence. This is where the more bizarre ideas for small holdings and making solo more viable come from.

Many of the denizens of the tar pit will blame others for their own failings. They will blame others for finding teams and working together. They will say that there's too much politics and that null sec attracts too many narcissists. They will claim that CCP has intentionally designed the game to feed the lo/null "1%" with 99% cannon fodder. They will even say that CCP should remove the benefits of flying with a team to make it easier for them.

This only transfers their own insecurities about lo sec onto others.


Huh? This looks like the same random dribble about hi-seccers that your accusing hi-seccers of saying about low/null-seccers.

-1

yk
Bobo Cindekela
Doomheim
#33 - 2012-07-22 17:07:13 UTC
"Don't Demand Changes to Ecosystems You Don't Understand "

this.

You are about to engage in an arguement with a forum alt,  this is your final warning.

Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#34 - 2012-07-22 17:52:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Bootleg Jack
pointless...

I'm an American, English is my second language...

Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-07-22 18:04:36 UTC
The wolves have run out of sheep, but instead of turning on each other like real wolves, they hold hands, and cry in the forums hoping for more sheep. Big smile

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#36 - 2012-07-22 18:05:30 UTC
Why do people with no clue post in the forums?

Half of highsec dwellers are alts of lowsec/0.0 characters...
So your premise that highsec dwellers have no experience in 0.0/lowsec blows your whole opinion right out of the water....Have a nice day. Lol



Signature removed - CCP Eterne

Merovee
Gorthaur Legion
Imperium Mordor
#37 - 2012-07-22 19:37:08 UTC
Forget Hi-Sec.
Low-sec should be fought over by null-sec. Some sort of Governorship over low-sec by null-sec to make it easier for hi-sec miners to mine in low-sec or live in low-sec as a trade route from null-sec to Hi-sec. If you don't like that, then resist it.

Empire, the next new world order.

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#38 - 2012-07-22 19:48:57 UTC
Merovee wrote:
Forget Hi-Sec.
Low-sec should be fought over by null-sec. Some sort of Governorship over low-sec by null-sec to make it easier for hi-sec miners to mine in low-sec or live in low-sec as a trade route from null-sec to Hi-sec. If you don't like that, then resist it.

Trade route?

Eve doesn't have trade routes, it has jump freighters.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#39 - 2012-07-22 20:02:18 UTC
Merovee wrote:
Forget Hi-Sec.
Low-sec should be fought over by null-sec. Some sort of Governorship over low-sec by null-sec to make it easier for hi-sec miners to mine in low-sec or live in low-sec as a trade route from null-sec to Hi-sec. If you don't like that, then resist it.


-1/10.

**** off, you neckbeard no-lifer MMOG cliche.

Regards,

Someone who's lived in losec for the last 2+ years in various capacities/guises.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

ashley Eoner
#40 - 2012-07-22 21:04:25 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Gun Gal wrote:
Exactly

Hisec is what it is, if you get rid of it, you end EVE.

The sandbox is for everyone, and whatever playstyle the people want.

Far more subscriptions are highsec. So deal with it.

Sorry, I must have missed the part where CCP released statistics on player distribution in Eve.

All I've seen is character distribution. And given the average SP of high sec players, I'd put a fair bit of money on the vast majority of high sec being alts.
All I've seen is character distribution. And given the average conversations of high sec players, I'd put a fair bit of money on the majority of high sec being new players.

Quote:
And those in high sec that aren't alts, given that they average at <5m SP who the hell cares about them anyway? What is a more valued customer, a 6 month or older player or one that joins for a few months and then quits? What player type would you cater to if you were running a business?
Yeah who needs new customers as a business. Throw all the money on the bittervets and hose all the newbies because lord knows newbies NEVER EVER stick around!!! That's a sure fire plan to keep the game alive...

What's funny is you're not even intelligent enough to realize how the logical fallacy you're pushing relates to you.