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New dev blog: Tech is fine l2p

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#621 - 2012-07-22 16:22:21 UTC
I think what needs to happen is that Inspiration needs to be forced to scan down two regions, in one sitting.

I guess we can allow one bathroom break, but no more.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Inspiration
#622 - 2012-07-22 16:22:44 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Inspiration wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
That word, "communist", I don't think you know what it means.


Well it is not exactly the same, but the the tendency is there and that is what counts. This is not balancing, this is an attempt to set prices top-down. And that my friend, happens in communist systems as there is no method of valuing anything correctly as there is no free choice that evaluates what the price for an item should be.


No, that would be if CCP decided to set a fixed NPC buy/sell price on moongoo to put hard limits on it. Even with alchemy you are still free to try to buy/sell tech at any price you want.

Alchemy is more comparable to R&D in the real world - expensive materials are being replaced by cheaper and more efficient ones, in order to be able to produce the same stuff cheaper and thus stay competitive. Which is one of the foundations of capitalism.


Like magic is in fantasy!

Transmuting materials is not the thing your analogy will hold up well to. Using various other materials in new proportions to produce the same stuff would be an appropriate match. And that is NOT what CCP is dong here, the T2 stuff requiring technetium still requires the same input! Besides real progress wouldn't require more POS spam!

I am serious!

Inspiration
#623 - 2012-07-22 16:34:13 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
I think what needs to happen is that Inspiration needs to be forced to scan down two regions, in one sitting.

I guess we can allow one bathroom break, but no more.


LOL!

In a real environment new resources are found and others deplete, requiring "scanning" all the time. THis mechanic is totally absent in moon mining, so you trolling me by proposing I have to scan as if that is an unrealistic amount of work...is well...laughable!

You got a pretty poor defense there and the self interest oozes out !

I am serious!

Inspiration
#624 - 2012-07-22 16:35:45 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Inspiration wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Inspiration wrote:
Now, if they were to redistribute moon minerals for example, that would be another matter at all!


redistributing moon minerals is dumb when there's 180k moons in the game that can potentially be mined

if your idea of a balanced game is "the game rolls 1d20 for me every x months and i might get a personal tech moon in the process!" well it's not


How does that differ from changing the materials needed in T2 production, like they did before?
Which costed me around 25b in reaction input stock i had at the time?
If that was is legitimate change, then redistributing moon minerals once so that not all stuff sits in one particular place, certainly is too!


How do you not understand how much moon scanning sucks?

What language does that need to be put in for you?


You are just plain lazy and want a static environment, meaning you should not even play a game like EVE that undergoes so many changes over its lifetime!

I am serious!

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#625 - 2012-07-22 16:38:09 UTC
Inspiration wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
I think what needs to happen is that Inspiration needs to be forced to scan down two regions, in one sitting.

I guess we can allow one bathroom break, but no more.


LOL!

In a real environment new resources are found and others deplete, requiring "scanning" all the time. THis mechanic is totally absent in moon mining, so you trolling me by proposing I have to scan as if that is an unrealistic amount of work...is well...laughable!

You got a pretty poor defense there and the self interest oozes out !

5 regions, then.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#626 - 2012-07-22 16:42:45 UTC
Inspiration wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Inspiration wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Inspiration wrote:
Now, if they were to redistribute moon minerals for example, that would be another matter at all!


redistributing moon minerals is dumb when there's 180k moons in the game that can potentially be mined

if your idea of a balanced game is "the game rolls 1d20 for me every x months and i might get a personal tech moon in the process!" well it's not


How does that differ from changing the materials needed in T2 production, like they did before?
Which costed me around 25b in reaction input stock i had at the time?
If that was is legitimate change, then redistributing moon minerals once so that not all stuff sits in one particular place, certainly is too!


How do you not understand how much moon scanning sucks?

What language does that need to be put in for you?


You are just plain lazy and want a static environment, meaning you should not even play a game like EVE that undergoes so many changes over its lifetime!


If I'm lazy you're an idiot, hows that fit for you ?


EVE has been around for SOO many years and guess what, Moon mining is so damn tedious that there is not one single complete record of every moon in the game.

8 years, in a relatively unchanging environment and no one has scanned all the moons.

So am I lazy or are you ignorant of what moon scanning entails?

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Inspiration
#627 - 2012-07-22 16:49:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Inspiration
.

I am serious!

Inspiration
#628 - 2012-07-22 16:53:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Inspiration
...this forum is broken...

I am serious!

Laura Craft Cypher
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#629 - 2012-07-22 16:57:24 UTC
Quote:
A) for 20:1 alchemy
1 alchemy PT = 5k cobalt + 2.5k plat + 35k fuel + 14k profit = 56.5k ISK
1 tech = 105k ISK minimum


You forgot to account for the vast amount of cash players make doing other things besides creating and selling products.
...This forgotten, reservoir of cash is immense.

So large in fact that players can pay for their game time with it and still have plenty of left over cash to throw away on the market to influence prices. And the more money someone has to toss at the market.. the more control they have over the prices.

Some players might think and say, "Well that's just stupid. Why would anyone want to do that?".
The answer is simple... They'll do it to control the market. And they will do it simply because they have the ability to do so.

And since there is more than just a handful of people preforming such practice, the effect gets amplified for each active participant.

For so long as players have the ability to control the low end market and trade freely among themselves and have a reservoir of cash to draw upon. Prices will go where they want them to go with a little coaxing and time.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#630 - 2012-07-22 16:58:53 UTC
Inspiration wrote:
You don't have to move far in a good system at all!

Missing the point, one post at a time.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Inspiration
#631 - 2012-07-22 17:00:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Inspiration
Grath Telkin wrote:
EVE has been around for SOO many years and guess what, Moon mining is so damn tedious that there is not one single complete record of every moon in the game.

8 years, in a relatively unchanging environment and no one has scanned all the moons.

So am I lazy or are you ignorant of what moon scanning entails?


You are wrong on all accounts because:

* Every moon (bar high sec, as that cannot be mined) is scanned, often multiple times.
* Every relevant moon can be found in public databases.
* Of course alliances will try to keep moon information as secret as possible, but that will never change.
* Even so, statistics for null sec are available and public and have been for years!

I am serious!

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#632 - 2012-07-22 17:03:47 UTC
Inspiration wrote:
* Very moon (bar high sec, as that cannot be mined) is scanned, often multiple times.

One moon being scanned by one guy/alliance doesn't mean the rest of the eve universe knows what's going on there.

Inspiration wrote:
* Every relevant moon can be found in public databases.

Wrong.

Inspiration wrote:
* Of course alliances will try to keep moon information as secret as possible, but that will never change.

Which means that everyone has to scan every moon in the entire eve universe. And if you're going to make this a depletable bullshit mechanic, you have to do that every month or 3 months or whatever the ****.

Inspiration wrote:
* Even so, statistics for null sec are available and public and have been for years!

Wrong.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Inspiration
#633 - 2012-07-22 17:18:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Inspiration
Lord Zim wrote:
Inspiration wrote:
* Very moon (bar high sec, as that cannot be mined) is scanned, often multiple times.

One moon being scanned by one guy/alliance doesn't mean the rest of the eve universe knows what's going on there.

Inspiration wrote:
* Every relevant moon can be found in public databases.

Wrong.

Inspiration wrote:
* Of course alliances will try to keep moon information as secret as possible, but that will never change.

Which means that everyone has to scan every moon in the entire eve universe. And if you're going to make this a depletable bullshit mechanic, you have to do that every month or 3 months or whatever the ****.

Inspiration wrote:
* Even so, statistics for null sec are available and public and have been for years!

Wrong.


I can only laugh at your reply really, first i ain't proposing to change all month mineral locations every x months. Second, All valuable moons are known by the big alliances simply because of the fact that other put a pos on it at one time or another. For null sec goes that when the big alliances know , it is effectively public knowledge.

You might not know, but that is your own little problem. Insisting you should know it form public records, is a madness in and of itself.

Bus since your lazy and/or just ignorant, here is a long for you to start wising up!

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/region/Fountain/moons

After seeing stuff like this in a public database, you you really expect that the moons in those system you do not see listed are all valuable? I wouldn't think so!

I am serious!

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#634 - 2012-07-22 17:19:51 UTC
Look at you, assuming that information is actually 100% correct.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Inspiration
#635 - 2012-07-22 17:23:38 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Look at you, assuming that information is actually 100% correct.

You even too lazy to verify a single moon, go **** yourself dude...keep asking in Jita for handouts!

Pathetic!

I am serious!

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#636 - 2012-07-22 17:31:30 UTC
Ahh, the sounds of a defeated forum combatant.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Electra Magnetic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#637 - 2012-07-22 19:02:53 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Wocka Wocka!

Remember that if you like this change you should hit the "like" button on this post. I need to know if this is the kind of work the community is looking for. ;)


How about making the game fun for millions instead of just your handful of immature pvp junkies and doing it all without direction from the community. Afterall, that is what the 15 bucks a month from your subscribers is for.... development of NEW content.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#638 - 2012-07-22 19:20:30 UTC
Electra Magnetic wrote:
How about making the game fun for millions instead of just your handful of immature pvp junkies and doing it all without direction from the community. Afterall, that is what the 15 bucks a month from your subscribers is for.... development of NEW content.


content is generated by the players

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#639 - 2012-07-22 19:23:54 UTC
Inspiration wrote:
After seeing stuff like this in a public database, you you really expect that the moons in those system you do not see listed are all valuable? I wouldn't think so!


If you honestly believe that dotlan's moon data is accurate, I don't know what to tell you.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

evereplicant
Doomheim
#640 - 2012-07-22 19:44:28 UTC
So something about tech. its not really sorting the problem though is it.
See i dont have a problem per say with 'jackpot' moons but to allow certain alliances to claim ALL the most expensive moons and yeah venal tech is wrong. Why dont you randomise these super income moons as well?

Do ccp also check when they make changes like this its spread out over eve. The prob last time the venal become tech heaven, its seems that may queriousand period basis will hold more of the moons required for this change. Why do you do that yet again? havent you learned the lesson yet? yet again one alliance will control important moons... its stupid..


why cant you be a bit more drastic and actually change moon outputs or their locations? so that minerals are spread evenly around eve universe instead of everything in one or two regions its insane, you just dont seem to learn..