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Problem with super nerf - super caps are committed for 23 hours and die if the subcap fleet welps

Author
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2011-10-10 21:34:43 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Chronix Beebelbrox wrote:
Dorian Wylde wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
An aircraft carrier can no longer be as tough as an entire navy fleet?
Sort of a bad example, modern supercarriers can win wars with most countries on earth by themselves.
Um no. An aircraft carrier will not even leave port without the compliment of it's defensive support fleet of cruisers, destroyers and subs. Not to mention all the space based and land based assets tasked to a carrier battle GROUP. A "modern american supercarrier", while truly able to wield more destructive military power anywhere in the world than all but the strongest military forces in the world, it does nothing "by themselves."
…for a nice illustration, look up the Millennium Challenge 2002 wargame and what happened there. The tl;dr of it is this: welpfleets works in real life too… they really work.


I just read about it. And I LOL'ed hard.Lol


Goonswarm 2002; sinkin' yer carriers.
Rhinanna
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2011-10-10 21:54:56 UTC
Wait.... you are actually complaining that a SUB-CAP FLEET can affect your supers???

Epic epic fail. Of course they should be able to or what the hell is the point of bringing them in the first place?

-The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it! Other names: Drenzul (WoT, WoW, Lineage 2, WarH, BloodBowl, BSG, SC2 and lots more) 

Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2011-10-10 21:57:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jada Maroo
Feligast wrote:
Nurdra wrote:
Now what happen if you are logging off inside a pos? your ship warps at savespot, but you are still scanable and the ship disapear after 1min without combat timer. This could still be enought for a good scanner and fast warping ship to find you in system and shot at you with a civilian gun, then your 15min timer starts? and your ship is gone?

So you cant dock, you cant logoff, what do you do whit you sc? be online 24/7? sounds funny :)


how about... jump out to a safe system? Stop logging off with hostiles in system?

As my esteemed brother says.. I see no downside.



That's just dumb.

Realistically, once inside the POS bubble, my character wouldn't go "DRRRRR, I WARP OUTSIDE NOW LOLOL11" the minute I log off.
EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#64 - 2011-10-10 22:13:02 UTC
Jada Maroo wrote:
Feligast wrote:
Nurdra wrote:
Now what happen if you are logging off inside a pos? your ship warps at savespot, but you are still scanable and the ship disapear after 1min without combat timer. This could still be enought for a good scanner and fast warping ship to find you in system and shot at you with a civilian gun, then your 15min timer starts? and your ship is gone?

So you cant dock, you cant logoff, what do you do whit you sc? be online 24/7? sounds funny :)


how about... jump out to a safe system? Stop logging off with hostiles in system?

As my esteemed brother says.. I see no downside.



That's just dumb.

Realistically, once inside the POS bubble, my character wouldn't go "DRRRRR, I WARP OUTSIDE NOW LOLOL11" the minute I log off.


Your character doesn't do this anyway.

It's been 2 years (if not longer) since your ship warped out of a POS when you log off. You log off in place.
EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#65 - 2011-10-10 22:13:13 UTC
What I'm trying to say is:

"lol ur dum"
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#66 - 2011-10-10 22:18:16 UTC
EnderCapitalG wrote:
Jada Maroo wrote:
Feligast wrote:
Nurdra wrote:
Now what happen if you are logging off inside a pos? your ship warps at savespot, but you are still scanable and the ship disapear after 1min without combat timer. This could still be enought for a good scanner and fast warping ship to find you in system and shot at you with a civilian gun, then your 15min timer starts? and your ship is gone?

So you cant dock, you cant logoff, what do you do whit you sc? be online 24/7? sounds funny :)


how about... jump out to a safe system? Stop logging off with hostiles in system?

As my esteemed brother says.. I see no downside.



That's just dumb.

Realistically, once inside the POS bubble, my character wouldn't go "DRRRRR, I WARP OUTSIDE NOW LOLOL11" the minute I log off.


Your character doesn't do this anyway.

It's been 2 years (if not longer) since your ship warped out of a POS when you log off. You log off in place.


Steady now. It sounds like you're expecting a supercap pilot to know how to play as well as grind up/buy the ISK for their ship.

Now that's hardly reasonable is it?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2011-10-10 22:19:39 UTC
EnderCapitalG wrote:
What I'm trying to say is:

"lol ur dum"


You do warp off, you just don't see it, and aren't scannable. Why do you think you warp back after logging back in? You don't just pop up at the POS again.

Now do you trust these changes not to **** that up?
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2011-10-10 22:20:31 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Steady now. It sounds like you're expecting a supercap pilot to know how to play as well as grind up/buy the ISK for their ship.

Now that's hardly reasonable is it?

Are we surprised that alliances that have completely relied on imbalanced blobs of supercaps for years have no idea how the rest of the game works?

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#69 - 2011-10-10 22:22:18 UTC
Jada Maroo wrote:
EnderCapitalG wrote:
What I'm trying to say is:

"lol ur dum"


You do warp off, you just don't see it, and aren't scannable. Why do you think you warp back after logging back in? You don't just pop up at the POS again.

Now do you trust these changes not to **** that up?



You. Log. Off. In. Place.

You disappear inside the POS, and then warp back in, exactly where you logged off (bubbles are ineffective).
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#70 - 2011-10-10 22:27:54 UTC
My epeen sense is telling me to have some liquid ISK on hand for all the dirt cheap SC characters that will soon be in the market forum.

Mr Epeen Cool
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#71 - 2011-10-10 22:28:14 UTC
I don't know whether to be delighted or horrified that there is this many supercapital pilots in the game with such a poor grasp on strategy and tactics. Seriously, the fear-mongering here is redonkulous.

Thank you everyone, for confirming once again that numbers and sizes have very little do to with increased amounts of thought put into battling it out, and that the make up of any fleet above 50 is about 90% terrified pilots who are completely dependent on the FC to wipe their asses for them. Seriously, I really dont care how big your 3p33n is or how many sp you have, if you're under the impression that supercarriers are now worthless than you deserve to either have it collect dust for eternity, or you deserve for it to die in a horrible fire.

Thank you CCP, for taking care of this. The scared supercap pilots who trained straight for the big stuff without every learning to, you know, PvP, deserve to be weeded out swiftly and severely when they dont put any thought into their drops, those pilots with a few brain cells and some balls o steel will be out scouting, planning, setting up cynos, primarying HIC's, and tactically handling these changes like champs.

To those nullsec jocks complaining that "if we lose subcap battle, we lose supercap battle" my advice is this - learn to fly smaller ships. You know, the ones that the other 95% of Eve players fly. Learn to fly them, and win. Yes, it is more difficult than jumping in a super, launching drones indefinitely, laughing at other players, than logging when things go south. Yes, its more difficult than hopping in an Abaddon and going down an alphabetical primary list and feeling like you're a badass cause you're with 500 others. But if you guys learn to actually PvP, and make independent decisions in a fleet situation, you might be able to instruct the subcap fleet that you'll need to defend yourself in how to do their job. And if your subcap buddies can't take out some HIC's or bubblers in time, well, thats your fault.

I think we're going to need a Tech 2 Noctis with tech 2 liquid extractors to gather all these tears come winter. I'm thrilled super pilots will actually have to pause for a bit and think before deploying their 'I WIN" buttons.

Everyone should be celebrating the triumph of tactics over resources. Eve is a great big sandbox and all, but just like all you people who said no "gold ammo" advantages, there likewise shouldn't be tactical advantages strictly because your Alliance owns more supers than the next. There should ALWAYS be a way for the clever smaller guy to get ahead, even against caps.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2011-10-10 22:28:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jada Maroo
EnderCapitalG wrote:
Jada Maroo wrote:
EnderCapitalG wrote:
What I'm trying to say is:

"lol ur dum"


You do warp off, you just don't see it, and aren't scannable. Why do you think you warp back after logging back in? You don't just pop up at the POS again.

Now do you trust these changes not to **** that up?



You. Log. Off. In. Place.

You disappear inside the POS, and then warp back in, exactly where you logged off (bubbles are ineffective).


You disappear in place. Don't assume you aren't warped off invisibly. You wouldn't need to warp back to your POS after log in if you hadn't been warped off in the first place.

Now what happens when you battle -> go to POS -> log off in under 15 mins in the new system? Is your ship just gonna disappear or is it gonna do something stupid? I can almost guarantee it'll do something stupid, there will be multiple bug reports on Sisi, and it'll deploy unfixed. P
EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2011-10-10 22:28:53 UTC
That's a lot of words
EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#74 - 2011-10-10 22:28:59 UTC
:words:
EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#75 - 2011-10-10 22:29:21 UTC
Jada Maroo wrote:
EnderCapitalG wrote:
Jada Maroo wrote:
EnderCapitalG wrote:
What I'm trying to say is:

"lol ur dum"


You do warp off, you just don't see it, and aren't scannable. Why do you think you warp back after logging back in? You don't just pop up at the POS again.

Now do you trust these changes not to **** that up?



You. Log. Off. In. Place.

You disappear inside the POS, and then warp back in, exactly where you logged off (bubbles are ineffective).


You disappear in place. Don't assume you aren't warped off invisibly. You wouldn't need to warp back to your POS after log in if you hadn't been warped off in the first place.

Now what happens when you battle -> go to POS -> log off in under 15 mins in the new system? Is your ship just gonna disappear or is it gonna do something stupid? I can almost guarantee it'll do something stupid, there will be multiple bug reports on Sisi, and it'll deploy unfixed. P


Okay, your gimmick is boring now.
EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#76 - 2011-10-10 22:29:58 UTC
No guys, a mechanic that has nothing to do with the nerfs will end up screwed up because forum poster Jada Maroo said so.
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#77 - 2011-10-10 22:30:34 UTC
Haven't read the blog yet but by the sounds of peoples comments.

THe large alliances will continue to use SC's and Blob with them and the small alliances will put them in storage.

Yup winter is going to be interesting.

Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2011-10-10 22:32:24 UTC
EnderCapitalG wrote:
No guys, a mechanic that has nothing to do with the nerfs will end up screwed up because forum poster Jada Maroo said so.



Indeed. Now you're getting it. * Pats on head *
EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#79 - 2011-10-10 22:32:42 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
Haven't read the blog yet but by the sounds of peoples comments.

THe large alliances will continue to use SC's and Blob with them and the small alliances will put them in storage.

Yup winter is going to be interesting.



CCP are now giving them more specific roles instead of One Size Kills All.

It's A Good Thing.
EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#80 - 2011-10-10 22:33:11 UTC
Jada Maroo wrote:
EnderCapitalG wrote:
No guys, a mechanic that has nothing to do with the nerfs will end up screwed up because forum poster Jada Maroo said so.



Indeed. Now you're getting it. * Pats on head *


Oh boy. My face sure is red.