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Command ship vs. T3
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Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#21 - 2012-07-20 11:26:51 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Daniel AtwardsonII wrote:
Reading the forums I learned that many people consider the strategic cruisers as being far more superior to command ships. I don't want to give quotes, but everywhere you look you see that every T3 outclasses not only it's racial CS, but also every CS in existence. So be it, although I'm not sure at all. What do I know is that I'm watching the alliance tournament and see strategic cruisers popping like crazy, just like any other common ship, every single game, while command ships and especially Sleipnirs are popping far less often and mostly they actually don't pop at all. Could anyone please explain this to me?


I feel like the major benefits of a T3 aren't really showcased in the alliance tournament. Consider:
- The covops cloak and interdiction nullifier are completely useless in the AT
- The cruiser based kiting abilities are severely hampered
- T3 gang boosters are going to be inferior to the Fleet Commands because they're impossible to tank properly with the requisite number of gang mods.

However, note that:
- We see lots of Proteus (Proteii?), but we see no Astartes.
- We see lots of Tengus, but we see no NHs
- We see lots of Absolutions, but we see no Legions.
- We see lots of Sleips but we see few Lokis (and those we do see are there for the web bonus).

I guess that means that Astartes and NHs are both under performing a bit, while Legions and perhaps DPS Lokis are as well. I'm sure there's also a points difference for bringing a CS vs a T3, but I don't know what it is.

-Liang

Agree'd - the Legion and Loki just seem a bit poor compared to the other T3's. Where-as the sleipnir is amazing and the absolution isn't far from being there too (think it's missing a slot tbh... even if it does have the same number of slots as other CS's - it needs another mid.)
Daniel AtwardsonII
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-07-21 17:45:12 UTC
What does it make the Sleipnir so special after all?
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
#23 - 2012-07-21 23:04:05 UTC
Daniel AtwardsonII wrote:
What does it make the Sleipnir so special after all?


Good speed, good tank, good agility and autocannons.

It really does everything right.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#24 - 2012-07-22 00:57:23 UTC
Daniel AtwardsonII wrote:
What does it make the Sleipnir so special after all?


it's matari and has +1 slot compared to the other Field commands, there is your answer.
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-07-22 01:33:07 UTC
Lady Naween wrote:


Oh and bring up the EHP on all the fleet command ships to damnation level, active tank bonus on a fleet command ship? yeah i live long under that kind of firepower with a repper or two.. eyeroll



If they do that, they would probably have to get rid of all the active tank bonuses as well. Not saying I wouldn't absolutely love that to happen, but it's very unlikely.

They can't really buff the ehp of the others either. The Damnation has such an amazing tank because it has 3 tanking bonuses. No other ship has that. Gallente and Minmatar in particular wouldn't work because they don't have tank based command links.

If anything they would probably remove one of the tanking bonuses for a missile damage or rof boost, to give it some actual dps. I would not be in favor of that, but its a possibility.
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
#26 - 2012-07-22 02:02:44 UTC
Dorian Wylde wrote:
Lady Naween wrote:


Oh and bring up the EHP on all the fleet command ships to damnation level, active tank bonus on a fleet command ship? yeah i live long under that kind of firepower with a repper or two.. eyeroll



If they do that, they would probably have to get rid of all the active tank bonuses as well. Not saying I wouldn't absolutely love that to happen, but it's very unlikely.

They can't really buff the ehp of the others either. The Damnation has such an amazing tank because it has 3 tanking bonuses. No other ship has that. Gallente and Minmatar in particular wouldn't work because they don't have tank based command links.

If anything they would probably remove one of the tanking bonuses for a missile damage or rof boost, to give it some actual dps. I would not be in favor of that, but its a possibility.


Keep the active tank on the Field command .. they are for small gang anyway. But for fleet warfare, yes please remove the active tanking bonus and buff the ehp.

And yes the damnation has extra boosts from its links (as does the vulture) but even without that the damnation is heads and shoulders above the others in EHP. Give them a small carrot at least.

gah wrong char but.. :)
Daniel AtwardsonII
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2012-07-22 11:47:00 UTC
Linda Shadowborn wrote:
Daniel AtwardsonII wrote:
What does it make the Sleipnir so special after all?
Good speed, good tank, good agility and autocannons. It really does everything right.

Well, if it really does everything right, it's not fair and it should be nerfed to bring balance back to the game. I mean it's really frustrating - for someone who cannot fly a Sleipnir - to hear that. That's why I'm going to fill a petition asking that the ship be nerfed. I guess it wouldn't be a problem since everything which was really good until now has always also been nerfed. Even the rats in nullsec have been recently nerfed! I remember last year I was making kinda 40-50 mil/h, now I barely do 10-15 mil/h with much better skills. This is outrageous.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#28 - 2012-07-22 12:28:12 UTC
Naaa, it's not going to get nerfed not even close. If anything it will probably see some minor buffs along with the more significant buffs the other field commands will receive. Even with the additional slot the sleipnir has over the other commands it's still 1 slot shy of the cane when including rigs as slots. It will probably receive +1 slot like the cyclone where the other tier 1 bcs and their subsequent field commands will receive +2.
Akonnen
Birds of Prey Inc.
#29 - 2012-07-23 12:48:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Akonnen
The point isn't that one has more gank or tank than the other, it's the fact that command ships have a very specific purpose and niche (boosting) that got robbed by the T3 and they take very long to train and perfect roughly 6+ months to a year.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#30 - 2012-07-23 13:02:23 UTC
Akonnen wrote:
The point isn't that one has more gank or tank than the other, it's the fact that command ships have a very specific purpose and niche (boosting) that got robbed by the T3 and they take very long to train and perfect roughly 6+ months to a year.


There is a difference between field and fleet command. The commands you speak of are fleet commands.
Earthmother
Skybert Organization
Reeloaded.
#31 - 2012-07-23 14:03:00 UTC
I think T3 Battleships would be cool tho. but make them very expensive and skill intensive. say around 4-6 bil for the hull. and have them be pretty good at whatever battleships are supposed to do. Marauders on speed.

maybe extreamly specilised roles. if you use the BS for bonuses on grid. let them have 450k ehp. but remove offensive abilety. this would let the fleet commander be visible to the other team. but taking him down would require alota work. so it is a trade off. take away leadership, or reduce incomming damage.

something along this lines would be cool. and actualy let the space personaletys come into big fleet engagements without beeing instagibbed.
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