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WARDEC needs tweaked.

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Naomi Apollonia
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#1 - 2012-07-10 03:16:54 UTC
Why is it possible for a corp to so easily dodge a Wardec? Had a recent experience where we wardecced a corp. The members left the day the wardec was declared, closed the corp, and now we're out 50 mil? Can we please get this fixed so that people cannot change corps so easily and or close a corp to avoid a wardec?
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-07-10 12:26:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Then what do you suggest?

People can leave corp if they want to. It obvious they did not want to fight at all, but you now want force people to stay in there corps when a war is declared?

Yes you loose 50mil... just move on.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Naomi Apollonia
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#3 - 2012-07-10 13:35:16 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Then what do you suggest?

People can leave corp if they want to. It obvious they did not want to fight at all, but you now want force people to stay in there corps when a war is declared?

Yes you loose 50mil... just move on.


Then what purpose does the wardec system serve?
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#4 - 2012-07-10 14:51:36 UTC
Naomi Apollonia wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Then what do you suggest?

People can leave corp if they want to. It obvious they did not want to fight at all, but you now want force people to stay in there corps when a war is declared?

Yes you loose 50mil... just move on.


Then what purpose does the wardec system serve?


I can tell you what the purpose isn't. The purpose isn't to let you grief helpless carebears to your hearts content to the point where they don't bother logging in anymore and unsub. Yes, it is possible to escape from a wardec if someone really wants to.

In the grand scheme of things, it's much more detrimental for a carebear corp to be permadecced than it is for a wardeccing corp to waste 50M. It's easy to make another 50M, it's hard to enjoy the game when you're trapped in a wardec you can do nothing about which might never end. CCP is more likely to lose subs from people sick of being permadecced than from people who wasted 50M.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-07-10 17:50:32 UTC
Naomi Apollonia wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Then what do you suggest?

People can leave corp if they want to. It obvious they did not want to fight at all, but you now want force people to stay in there corps when a war is declared?

Yes you loose 50mil... just move on.


Then what purpose does the wardec system serve?


Exactly as mxzf said.

Just move along. I don't fret about people leaving a corp when i go after them. I look at it as a success for closing a corp down.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Naomi Apollonia
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#6 - 2012-07-10 18:32:59 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Naomi Apollonia wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Then what do you suggest?

People can leave corp if they want to. It obvious they did not want to fight at all, but you now want force people to stay in there corps when a war is declared?

Yes you loose 50mil... just move on.


Then what purpose does the wardec system serve?


I can tell you what the purpose isn't. The purpose isn't to let you grief helpless carebears to your hearts content to the point where they don't bother logging in anymore and unsub. Yes, it is possible to escape from a wardec if someone really wants to.

In the grand scheme of things, it's much more detrimental for a carebear corp to be permadecced than it is for a wardeccing corp to waste 50M. It's easy to make another 50M, it's hard to enjoy the game when you're trapped in a wardec you can do nothing about which might never end. CCP is more likely to lose subs from people sick of being permadecced than from people who wasted 50M.


Who said anything about wardeccing to grief? So know you equate wardeccing to griefing?
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#7 - 2012-07-10 18:59:22 UTC
Naomi Apollonia wrote:
Who said anything about wardeccing to grief? So know you equate wardeccing to griefing?


Why would they have dropped corp if they didn't feel like they were being griefed? It doesn't matter if you claim you were just looking for 'good fights' or not. If they felt so intimidated that they dropped corp, you weren't going to get 'good fights', you were just picking on someone who didn't know how to defend themselves.
Naomi Apollonia
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#8 - 2012-07-11 00:37:46 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Naomi Apollonia wrote:
Who said anything about wardeccing to grief? So know you equate wardeccing to griefing?


Why would they have dropped corp if they didn't feel like they were being griefed? It doesn't matter if you claim you were just looking for 'good fights' or not. If they felt so intimidated that they dropped corp, you weren't going to get 'good fights', you were just picking on someone who didn't know how to defend themselves.


Never claimed we were looking for a good fight. I claimed we were cheated out of our 50 mil(let alone the fee we would have been paid from another corp) due to poorly implemented game mechanics. As for feeling intimidated. Do a little research and you'd see this corp had more people in it than ours did before we wardecced it. Second, the youngest character of that corp was made in 2007. Our corp on the other hand had less people and the oldest is a little over a year old. They were intimidated?

Also, there is more to this story than what you think. I am not going to go into details, it would take too long. Needless to say, wardeccing is not griefing. It is part of this games mechanics and it is not working as intended. It allows corps to too easily avoid a wardec due to its poorly executed implementation.
Vim Toe
#9 - 2012-07-11 07:20:02 UTC
They obviously did you a favour, If your crying over 50 mil, you should not be wardeccing them, What would happen when you lose a ship to them, Open another thread asking for refunds from CCP for ship losses during war?
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-07-21 18:54:34 UTC
Naomi Apollonia wrote:
Why is it possible for a corp to so easily dodge a Wardec? Had a recent experience where we wardecced a corp. The members left the day the wardec was declared, closed the corp, and now we're out 50 mil? Can we please get this fixed so that people cannot change corps so easily and or close a corp to avoid a wardec?
Stop wardeccing tiny corps. The larger the corp, the harder to close the doors on it.
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#11 - 2012-07-21 22:17:28 UTC
The problem is that if they are just a highsec carebear corp they don't have any corp assets that they might lose by disbanding and corphopping.
I don't see a problem with that. As soon as they start to become worth attacking, they can't close down that easily.
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-07-23 08:18:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyprus Black
Yeah, we pretty much need a wardec overhaul to fix the recent botched wardec overhaul. The recent one did absolutely nothing to resolve the original main problems and introduced all new problems. I suspect CSM 8 will be running a "Fix Wardecs Proper This Time" campaign.

The new botched wardec overhaul made it far more difficult for small entities to fight larger.
It did nothing to stop dec shielding and wardec evasions.
It made it possible for large entities to grief smaller entities easier.
The devs flip-flopped on what they considered fair.
The devs quite hastily made changes to the ally system after a nullsec alliance cried foul. Coincidence maybe, but it still appears quite damning on CCPs part.

Everything that the wardec overhaul was supposed to fix did not get fixed. All it did was add more problems. Highly reminicent of the pre-Incarna CCP behavior.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33
Annie Clarke
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-07-27 16:06:22 UTC
On the flip side I'm a CEO of a small mining corp who has been wardecced a few times by the same alliance. Mainly because some people from a previous alliance fell out in RL and are now targeting current members. So we it went like this:

Corp 1 alliance 1 - Wardec
left corp and alliance
Corp2 alliance 2 (same people) Wardec
Corp2 no alliance wardec followed us and a corp in the war deccing alliance left so we have another wardec that is stuck on us

Needless to say no one has really logged in the last 2 weeks and are now going solo to avoid being war decced.

All this is in High sec too. Shouldn't there be the equivalent of United Nations in High sec?

Say if a corp has only high sec HQs they should only be allowed to be wardecced once per {insert time scale here} or something because Concord takes a dim view of random numpties picking on the industry/sovereignty in the region? I mean it's just like Somalian pirates in the English channel or France declaring war on Luxembourg ... just wouldn't happen. Whilst anything goes in Low and Null.

"Eve is hard tm" "HTFU" I know I know Roll

Just a thought though...
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#14 - 2012-07-30 05:02:31 UTC
Protections against dec dodging are not as strong as I think most reasonable people would like them to be, though they are certainly improved over the previous system. There's another round of iterations incoming this Winter, perhaps with enough player support taking a look at this will be one of them.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-07-31 09:39:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
A wardec allows you to do exactly what the name implies: to declare a universal war on another corporation (alliance). The war can end only in three ways: either the attacker withdraws the war, or the defender is defeated and surrenders to the attacker's terms, or the defender is completely destroyed and forced to disband their corporation. You pay the wardec fee to presumably force the defender into one of the latter two results.

Note that you always wardec a corporation (alliance), never individual people. The corporation you wardecced is by all means dead, destroyed, abandoned - your wardec is a success.